Drawn away?

Is it just me or has the 405th lost the awesomeness that it once had? I am still loyal to the 405th, but I have found that I come her less and less as time goes by. I don't know if it's just me getting board of the site or what. maybe when summer gets around I won't feel this way, but Im not sure... Has anyone else felt this way or is it just me?

I can barely stand to check the General Talk forums. The armor forums have become pure clutter. The whole place has lost its shine, no doubt, partly due to some of the amazing members who've left since our mass popularization.

Amen to this brother. The only threads I update are the Unity project thread and the modern warfare 3 thread. I am still oyal, but once again I am drawn away as well.

I havn't had much time to visit, but yes, I have noticed such. I usually go through creation discussion 1-2 times a week, and check to see if anything awesome has popped up. Aside from that, I havn't had much reason to check as obsessively-compulsively as I once did...

Work has taken away a lot of my free time, so I haven't been able to do stuff. And that is probably the number 1 reason I actually visit the site. That is to show progress and share ideas with others.

I haven't been here for very long, but it seems that a lot of the talented veteran members are not very active any more.

I am very much involved, but probably like a lot of members are very much busy with our other lives. I can tell you that there are less and less veterans contributing to the forum though. Either they move to other interests or they scale down their involvement.

One thing that I am certain is that a lot of veterans (me included) have stopped responding to some of the threads like: "I have a grand master plan...but I need help" or "I'm new and I need tons of help..." or "I'm such and such and watch me..." are very common today. I think all of us are tired to type, "Please read the stickies..." for the umpteenth time. It is just better to ignore these threads.

I found and joined the community about four months ago and the 405th has become the website I check out most (completely decimating TFLN). Because I'm relatively new there's much to explore and since I'm always looking to find useful info and techniques and other cool projects I have a good reason to look around. I could see as time progresses that interest might wane because you're increasingly seeing the same stuff.

Since I'm not as seasoned as most of you guys I wonder what, in your opinions, is becoming lack-luster with the site today as opposed to yesterday and what is causing it? I agree that many don't like ever-present new intro/plan threads that immediately fizzle but is the clutter that they create the primary or only issue? I have found it a bit difficult at times to navigate the site because there's so much info but even without these cluttering threads there's still so much out there to sift through.

Aside from the unity project that JBetts97 mentioned and a rate-your-armor thread or two I haven't seen much in the way of community-driven projects since I joined. Did there used to be more in the past or was it always more independent parties doing their own things and posting their own progresses and yields? Perhaps more group projects would bolster interest? I'm in the midst of my first armor build so I'm focusing on that but afterward I'd be up for becoming more involved with something along those lines.

I don't mean to detract from the purpose of this thread. If there is general dissatisfaction I think it'd be better to determine the issues, discuss what's causing them, and brainstorm on how to fix them.

I have noticed this as well. I think that it has to do with the amount of new members. There are currently 159 users online. 34 members and 125 guests. Now look at this fact.

Members
39,489
Active Members
3,019

Look at that. Look at how many people aren't active on the forums. It's about 3,000 to 40,000.

I have also noticed that there are alot of foam suits. For some reason this saddens me. Maybe it's because I came on here when Pepakura was just being perfected. It also seems it is because of the lack of Halo costumes, too many Iron Man, Daft Punk, or un-Halo related costumes. Don't get me wrong, I love Non-Halo related stuff, but it seems to have just taken over the site. At this rate, the 405th will never be similar to the 501st. We were also refered to by many other sites as the Pepakura masters. Just look at the banner, HALO Costuming Community.

I don't really mind the threads about other types of armor, but I do think that a category needs to be established to keep them separate from the Halo-based builds. Foam is pretty cool too, but it does seem like everyone is doing it that way.

I feel like the biggest problem is that there are no new innovations. When people were just starting out with pep when I joined, there were people posting their techniques as well as progress shots. Everyone made it a little differently. I feel like the builds are becoming cut and paste nowadays, looking either the same or with lackluster quality. The best one I've seen recently was Longshot-x's build, and he made elite. There's just no new techniques going on, and not a lot of new tutorials either.

Like NO ONE has made an accurate undersuit yet. I'm working on one, and I hope it to be up to high quality site standards, but there's no references. A few people started, no one even half-finished. I miss the innovation, how each person was looking to one-up the person before, making either a moving replica, lights, sound, or accuracy. It feels like a lot of the newer members are just here to build something for a costume party, wear it once (if they even finish it) and throw it in the closet because the sub-par standards made it fall apart.

I want to see more "new, shiny, and exciting". Like the warthog build, or the tutorial on how to make your ODST visor go from dark to clear, or someone that takes their costume to the next level. Even some innovation on how to hide all the strapping to hold the armor on would be nice.

I would have to agree with all of you on the current feeling of the state of the forums.

However, here is my humble yet simple analysis: (not that i'm trying to justify it)

1) The season. (uncontrolable factor) We are just coming out of the winter/spring seasons. During this time frame not much resining (hardening process) could not be done. Sooo... that means not a lot of the build threads are being updated. My self included. That's one of the reasons why I have not done my Gravity Hammer.

2) Lots of members have moved on due to work/life changes. Vetran's and others. (uncontrollable factor) That's life. They may be back or not... It's up to each individual to choose. Again, myself included. I moved to a new pad and now have a dedicated work shop to continue this amazing craft.

3) I am seeing lots of new forums starting up and looking for members to join. (another uncontrollable factor) This does have an impact on this forum. I know a few vetrans have chosen to leave here because of the newer forums.

4) New members (noobs). (This can be controlled) There is a huge influx of new members showing up. The vetran to noob ratio is a huge challenge when it comes to guiding and mentoring. I too have seen a significant number of PM's requesting answers and solutions when the simple answer is in the stickies.

5) Con's are springing up everywhere. This also has an impact. (yet another uncontrollable factor) I'm seeing alot of newcomers who want to have a costume for an upcoming con or event. I'm organizing the PAX Prime 2011 group and I know of a few who are starting to make costumes because of this.

6) World/Weather events. (uncontrollable factor) There are quite a few 405th'rs in the eastern states that are/have been going thru tornado weather.

7) In the near future School is soon to be out. (uncontrollable factor) This would suggest the possibility of more new members joining and starting builds.

Now having said all that. Yes, I feel the same way. Lots of noobs. Lots of PM's. Only a handful of awesome threads to read up on. Motivation and inspiration seem to be in short supply.

The only controllable factor (in my list) would be the new members. The concern is, how to control it so that it is FAIR to everyone. I feel that this would be best discused with the administrators/moderators. I also feel that closing the door to new members is not a good option, as this would also close the doors to new talent, skills and ideas. Take my case for instance. I was a noob... Look at what I did.

OMG... I thought that this was going to be a simple and short reply... lol

In the meantime, I'm happy enough to wait and see how things go as the weather warms up.

Cheers!

What about an "exam" of sorts where you have to get the answers correct before being able to post anything? Like "Does pepakura work on a mac?" "Where do I download it?" and a few other basic things that are answered in the stickies.

Temporary banning for questions that could easily be answered with a bit of searching, like "Where do I find the files for my pep?" "What kind of foam do you use for a foam build?" can be a one week ban where you are encouraged to find the answers yourself.

Some of these might work for some of the "noobs" but banning could be sidetracked by just making a new account, whereas the questions could be done for everyone.

I'm not really a contributing factor, but I check everyday. I love this website and ever since I got kick off of the B.net forum (unfairly BTW) I use this to convey my ideas. I think that the site hit a high mark when it was featured on Indy Mogul, but since then people have been building the same things and not much variation has been seen. Plus the clutter of the site as mentioned earlier has gotten people confused. Personally I really would like to have some more personalization such as actual signatures, I think that would attract more people.

While I've known about the 405th for a few years now due to Bungie's website, I haven't been a member until recently when I was finally able to dedicate myself to a full build. So I'm still pretty much a noob to the forums, but I hope you don't mind me chipping in.

I don't know what the forums were like in "the good ol' days", because though I knew about this place, I didn't really take the time to look through the forums that much. That said, even I am already becoming tired of seeing new members pop up with easily answered questions. I feel no one bothers to do even 5 minutes of research before hitting the "New Thread" button. I try to answer the ones that I feel actually tried a little, but I will probably give up soon from all the repetition.

Another problem I feel is too many people start a project, whether it's a weapon or full suit, do the Pep work, maybe some glassing, and then are never heard from again. I understand that life gets in the way, but there are just too many unfinished projects out there.

I also HATE threads that simply state what that person plans on doing. If you have a plan, DO IT, then post a new thread WITH PICTURES. To put it bluntly no one cares what you plan to do because you have not proven that you will. When you post pictures with plans in a "real" WIP thread, then you're not posting for no reason.

(This also goes for "updates" stating what they have done, and saying they will post pictures later. JUST POST THE UPDATE WHEN YOU HAVE THE PICTURES.)

I feel like I went off on a tangent there stating my pet peeves of this forum, but to get back on track, I think another thing that would improve the forums would be to cut down on the immense amount of Stickies. We've all told noobs to "go read the Stickies", but there are so many of them spread out in so many forums that they are difficult to keep track of. Not to mention many of these are very old tutorials with outdated methods, or with dead links and pictures. I would suggest getting rid of those to trim down the amount of stickied thread, and potentially look to update them.

I don't mean to call out the moderators, but perhaps some more could be selected, especially more active members? Ideally, there would be enough active moderators so that if a noob posts a pointless thread, a moderator quickly closes or better yet, deletes it and then sends the noob some generic messages to explain the violation to not scare them away. Of course, this depends on regular members being responsible with the "report thread" button.

tsau-mia said:

I don't really mind the threads about other types of armor, but I do think that a category needs to be established to keep them separate from the Halo-based builds. Foam is pretty cool too, but it does seem like everyone is doing it that way.

I feel like the biggest problem is that there are no new innovations. When people were just starting out with pep when I joined, there were people posting their techniques as well as progress shots. Everyone made it a little differently. I feel like the builds are becoming cut and paste nowadays, looking either the same or with lackluster quality. The best one I've seen recently was Longshot-x's build, and he made elite. There's just no new techniques going on, and not a lot of new tutorials either.

Like NO ONE has made an accurate undersuit yet. I'm working on one, and I hope it to be up to high quality site standards, but there's no references. A few people started, no one even half-finished. I miss the innovation, how each person was looking to one-up the person before, making either a moving replica, lights, sound, or accuracy. It feels like a lot of the newer members are just here to build something for a costume party, wear it once (if they even finish it) and throw it in the closet because the sub-par standards made it fall apart.

I want to see more "new, shiny, and exciting". Like the warthog build, or the tutorial on how to make your ODST visor go from dark to clear, or someone that takes their costume to the next level. Even some innovation on how to hide all the strapping to hold the armor on would be nice.

Click to expand...

AMEN to that !

tsau-mia said:

What about an "exam" of sorts where you have to get the answers correct before being able to post anything? Like "Does pepakura work on a mac?" "Where do I download it?" and a few other basic things that are answered in the stickies.

Temporary banning for questions that could easily be answered with a bit of searching, like "Where do I find the files for my pep?" "What kind of foam do you use for a foam build?" can be a one week ban where you are encouraged to find the answers yourself.

Some of these might work for some of the "noobs" but banning could be sidetracked by just making a new account, whereas the questions could be done for everyone.

Click to expand...

I agree wit this ^ I think we should start somthing like this where a new member couldnt only see the stickies and then after they have looked at them, they take the test. I am a puzzle cuber (rubiks cubes and v-cubes) and I am a part of a forum for twisty puzzles where BEFORE you can join officialy, you have to take a test and answer a certain percentage of the questions right. It has worked for them, lets try it with us. Hey , if it fails, then we can always try somthing else!

tsau-mia said:

What about an "exam" of sorts where you have to get the answers correct before being able to post anything? Like "Does pepakura work on a mac?" "Where do I download it?" and a few other basic things that are answered in the stickies.

Click to expand...

Even though I am a noob and don't have much say in this I must say I agree with this 100%. It wouldn't scare members away like banning them for making a thread would and hopefully it would make them search enough to pass the exam where they wouldn't need to make pointless question threads. Maybe throw in some rules questions and let new members know that cluttering the forums with "my idea", "how do I.." etc. threads will result in punishment, which may or may not be a short term ban.

I also agree about separate forums for non-halo builds. It would make it easier for many people who come here to look at halo builds by saving them the trouble of having to wade through a bunch of question threads and non halo builds in the Noob Forum today.

Another idea I had was for a "Question Forum" where people could go to ask any questions, where even if the question may be solved with a bit of searching, it's at least not cluttering up other forums.

Lastly, I think a "New Members Forum" would help. I know we already have the noob forum but I really don't think some of that stuff is noob forum material. I hate to see genuinely good threads stuck in an area where they get pushed back pages by needless plan and question threads. A "New Members Forum" would be a place where new members could post topics in to sort of prove their worth I guess, by maybe finishing a helmet, or pepping a few pieces to show they know what they are doing before they could post in the "Build Forum" which would be like Creation Discussion and the Noob Forum put together (Without the clutter threads of course.) This idea is sort of an either or with the exam I talked about earlier, but the more suggestions the better I guess.

TL;DR
Hypothetical situation
- Noob joins forum
-Takes entry quiz and passes
-Allowed posting new thread privileges in "New Members Forum"
-Creates a promising build thread and creates a decent looking helmet.
-Allowed to post threads in "Build Forum"
-Has a question, so goes to the "Question Forum" to get it answered.
-Makes another promising thread in the "Halo Armor" section of the build forum.
-Becomes Infantryman and a contributing member of the forum.

What do you guys think? Stupid Idea? I think it would help to reduce the clutter and allow people to look at things they want to see by having separate sections for new members builds and builds of halo armor and non-halo armor.

@Darkrider9: I like it.

Success has ruined many a man

tsau-mia said:

What about an "exam" of sorts where you have to get the answers correct before being able to post anything? Like "Does pepakura work on a mac?" "Where do I download it?" and a few other basic things that are answered in the stickies.

Click to expand...

Agreed. In this way, even if a noob has to google to cheat, they still learn all these commonplace facts, and the noob questions drop massively. It's really got no way to lose, because anyone who doesn't want to put up with the test doesn't have the patience for the hobby, anyway, and it presents a good chance to learn.

bevbor said:

Success has ruined many a man

Click to expand...

This is very true, especially of some veterans. It's pretty sad, actually.

Personally, I don't blame the noobs, entirely, but I have to admit, their massive numbers have been a great contributing factor to the downfall. Cutting this down would have adverse effects on our popularity, I'd guess (Mostly in the 12- age group), but, it would increase the quality of the forum's members. We need to change the site's layout to meet the needs of this new era, methinks.

I've been thinking of making a new suit, but all these foam builds depress me. Whatever happened to pepakura? Now everyone's all "let's get some foam and blah blah blah." It's cool and all, but it's like everyone's abandoned pepakura and fiberglass.

I'm still pepping, haha! But I will be filling the empty spaces with Flex-it! expanding foam so that it fits a little better, and is comfortable. I think just the cold, rainy winter everyone had is inspiring foam builds. Don't worry though, come June, the pep will come back!