"Only nice people get Halo's"

After some heated debate among the moderators and an even more heated debate in the forums I’ve decided to put together a little pep talk on the subject of forum etiquette.

The internet can be a particularly negative place when it comes to commenting. Search any of the top forums or websites that feature anonymous commenting and you’ll quickly come to the same conclusion. It would seem that certain people love nothing more than to look at someone else’s efforts, no matter how ambitious, and suggest that they could have done better... frequently in a rude manner. While some commenters can be constructive, others take the opportunity just to be insulting. Everyone’s a critic when it comes to commenting.

Here at the 405th forums we have noticed a sharp trend towards negative comments in work-in-progress threads in recent months. This is both a sign of our growth as a forum and an indication of success on the goal of gathering a widely distributed community of like minded Halo costumers. But as our numbers grow, so does the need for supervising the group.

From the establishment of the moderating team at the 405th, we strived to preserve freedom of expression in the forums, putting very few rules in place to govern. The intent was to allow people to behave as they felt was appropriate, and to only correct the offenses that ruined the experience for others.

As times changed we enacted some rules to help keep the peace. The “Guidelines for a Better Forum” was my first attempt to explain and reinforce the type of conduct we ask members to exercise on this board. I did my very best to represent the same spirit of freedom that Adam wanted to preserve while trying to imply some level of order.

Once again we have reached a critical point in our growth as a forum, and have discovered new levels of order that are required. This does not mean that all the rules are changing, only that we have found loopholes that we feel the need to correct.

In the original “Guidelines for a Better Forum” rule #1 may have been too vague:

1. Be nice… Treat your fellow members and moderators with respect.

Beyond this we’d like you to consider that when you join this website, you are joining the forum ‘team’. Teammates should not be shooting at each other, in Halo, or on in the forums of the 405th.

We’re all here because we want to collaborate, contribute, and learn. If that’s the case then we should all have some consideration for others on our ‘team’. We’re all entitled to our opinions, unpopular or not. But before you post a harsh criticism of someone else’s work, you should ask yourself this: “would I be offended if someone said this about me?”

We’re not expecting miracles, but we would like you all to treat each other with a little more respect and dignity. Everything here is essentially volunteer work. Every model, every tutorial, every WIP-to-Complete thread in this forum was posted from a members blood, sweat and generosity to share with us. It is inherent to all volunteer projects done out of the goodness of someone's heart that they should be treated with appropriate respect. We are all volunteers here, and our goal is to share our knowledge for the benefit of our growing community. Those who have not vested their own time, money, and effort to share their knowledge do not have the right to criticize, harass, or otherwise suggest that someone who has been generous enough to share with us is in the wrong. Constructive criticism is welcome… but destructive criticism is not.

We don't expect anyone here to change who they are as a person. Productivity is directly related to positivity, so perhaps some self-control is necessary for people who refuse to change for the betterment of our community. I don't like the idea of censoring anyone here, but I refuse to let anyone be insulted for the work that they have done for our collective benefit.

We’re all here to cooperate with each other, and to work towards a greater goal. If you aren’t here for that goal, then perhaps this isn’t the right place for you. I personally question why anyone who doesn't work well with others would want to be a part of our group in the first place.

This is a team, and we are Spartans. Every Spartan knows that his defense is only as good as the soldier next to him. If you do not protect your fellow teammate, that person will not do the same for you. Our strength is in our teamwork.

Only nice people get Halos..

Offer help before scorn

Encourage each other, courteously

Keep your criticism constructive

Attack your ally and you will face the Hammer



And most importantly:

Rule #1: Be nice… Treat your fellow members and moderators with respect.




That is all.

I agree completely. I think some people need to read this.

Very well put Sean.
I never liked the shooting down of peoples ideas or projects.
It should be a requirement that people have to read this thread and a few other of the stickies after becoming a member before they can even browse the forums.

I've never understood people post on forums just to say something bad about someone else's work, even if they have something better. No matter how crappy you may think someone's project is you don't need to tell them. When people say things like "That doesn't look right." they aren't doing anything but spamming (or trying to raise their post count). If you don't have anything constructive to say then don't say anything at all.

I totally agree. At times I can say some things rude or mean, but most of the time I try to treat others how I want to be treated, even if it is the internet and I do not know them personally.

When I first joined, I marveled at how well people worked together and complimented each other on this forum. Having just come another forum, the Black Mesa Source forums, the only experience I had was everyone was an @$$hole, even the moderators. I had my own ethical guideline for my posts there, and they generally were good. When I came here, the guidelines just fit so well, I didn't want to leave.

But I too have noticed an increasing number of ridicule comments about the forum. Don't go saying bad things to people, whether they deserve it or not. They spent time on a project that they more than likely enjoyed, and one of the first things they see is a comment saying they suck. Those who have been posting un-constructive comments know who they are. As Sean said, Constructive criticism is welcome… but destructive criticism is not.

Just be nice. This forum is one of the best I've seen by a long shot, and I don't want to see it's downfall.

Thanks for your input guys, it's good to know that this isn't falling on deaf ears.

I should mention that I wrote this up, but it was born out of a lengthy discussion between the mods, we all had a part in it.

Props to Sigma for the title, it fit perfectly.

I hope someday it can get back to how it was when we were mjolnir armor.

I like it. Very well written, Sean. I hope everyone gets a chance to read this.

Sean Bradley said:

Thanks for your input guys, it's good to know that this isn't falling on deaf ears.

I should mention that I wrote this up, but it was born out of a lengthy discussion between the mods, we all had a part in it.

Props to Sigma for the title, it fit perfectly.

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I'd like to thank all the mods (The9), especially you, Sean, for making this. This is your second attempt to restore some order and, hopefully, help some people understand what kind of behavior the 405th expects from its members.

Amen, my SPARTAN brothers!

I agree with and understand everything said here. People don't come here to be insulted and treated harshly; we come here to share our knowledge with one another and showcase our work, as we all share a common interest in the wonderful game franchise that is HALO.

Personally, I don't think it matters whether a person's been into prop/costume making for a month, a year or ten years. Everything that comes out of this community was done with a lot of blood, sweat and tears, and as such we all take pride in what we've done. And rightly so.

Remember, those of us who are more experienced in such things here all started out the same way, not really knowing just how to go about any of it. We were the noobs, asking those questions everyone hates to answer time and time again. But, we had to learn somehow, lol.

We've all been there, and so it's unfair to ridicule others who have just gotten into the hobby. Remember where we all came from with this. It's a case of putting oneself in the other's shoes, and recalling what it was like when we were in that position. Just some food for thought, folks. Keep that in mind.

I could go on, but I think everyone else has pretty much said anything else of importance, lol.

I fully agree with you Sean!

Sean Bradley said:

Rule #1: Be nice… Treat your fellow members and moderators with respect.
That is all.

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Sean you know i have the greatest respect for you and the fellow members of the mod team BUT i think the mod team is are still trying to "babysit" the members.

The population of this forum has grown so much that "babysitting" isn't enough. You need to step up more as moderator instead of forum member. There are members on this forum that are "basting" project and humiliate other members.Give them a real warning, and if they don't listen there should be consequences.

Until this point, you are trying to change the way of the members...not the ways of discipline. I radder have 3000 nice/skilled members then 5000 members.

And to conclude for everybody:

If you really want to have change (im like obama ) you need to look at yourself not somebody else

I think you should have left it as "Only nice Guy's get Halo's" , Or modified it so it was "Only nice Guy's(and Girls) get Halo's".

People doesn't sound as good for some reason ;0.

-Doom

Wery good thread Sean! There have been many "bad" pepole around here the last weeks!

falcon NL said:

There are members on this forum that are "basting" project and humiliate other members.Give them a real warning, and if they don't listen there should be consequences.

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For the record, we're not banning folks when there's nothing posted that states what they're doing is wrong, and gives them an idea on how to improve. It's a matter of perspective, and some folks just need a better idea of where the person next to them is coming from, in the hopes that the behavior will subside. This is an effort to do just that.

It's not babysitting, it's about not being heavy handed unless we need to be heavy handed. There's no need for threats or anything like that from the Mod team. You guys are all pretty cool, for many different reasons; and it's no good to treat anyone harshly when it's not needed.

There IS a cut-off point, where the gloves come off, but there's no point in rushing towards it unless we have to. We figure that anyone here, WANTS to be here, and that includes all of us. By wanting to be here, you want to be a part of this community, and all the mods want to do is try to keep the community a place worth being a part of.

Who wants to be threatened, humiliated, or otherwise abused, by members/mods/whatever? No one is trying to stop anyone from enjoying this place, and we're hoping that since you are all surrounded by folks that are just like you, there's no reason for problems that arise simply because someone hasn't put on the other person's shoes before making comments.

Deadguy said:

For the record, we're not banning folks when there's nothing posted that states what they're doing is wrong, and gives them an idea on how to improve. It's a matter of perspective, and some folks just need a better idea of where the person next to them is coming from, in the hopes that the behavior will subside. This is an effort to do just that.

It's not babysitting, it's about not being heavy handed unless we need to be heavy handed. 1#There's no need for threats or anything like that from the Mod team. You guys are all pretty cool, for many different reasons; and it's no good to treat anyone harshly when it's not needed.

2#There IS a cut-off point, where the gloves come off, but there's no point in rushing towards it unless we have to. We figure that anyone here, WANTS to be here, and that includes all of us. By wanting to be here, you want to be a part of this community, and all the mods want to do is try to keep the community a place worth being a part of.

Who wants to be threatened, humiliated, or otherwise abused, by members/mods/whatever? No one is trying to stop anyone from enjoying this place, and we're hoping that since you are all surrounded by foks that are just like you, there's no reason for problems that arise simply because someone hasn't put on the other person's shoes before making comments.

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1/2# That wasn't my point at all . My point was that that some people are getting warning after warning, and still don't change. I agree with the point that we don't want to rush to the point where the gloves come off, but tit takes almost forever before somebody swings into action mode.

I think we've gained a huge level of respect just out of the nice environment we've established.

I think you're doing a great job of being the upmost concerned if anything starts to threaten that.

Our vertern members and moderators have really created a great great place, and i'd sure like to keep it that way!


keep it up :not worthy:

falcon NL said:

1/2# That wasn't my point at all . My point was that that some people are getting warning after warning, and still don't change. I agree with the point that we don't want to rush to the point where the gloves come off, but tit takes almost forever before somebody swings into action mode.

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I was addressing your point by stating that we want folks to be aware of how to improve their interactions before we "do anything". Isolated warnings are no good if someone doesn't get why folks are getting upset about what they say in the first place. Don't worry, the gloves will come off when they're really need to, but hopefully this will get folks to think and understand before "stepping in it" in the first place.

I don't think we have any members that are actively trying to make anyone feel bad about what halo-related projects they've been able to accomplish. I think it's more of a point where folks say what they think is ok to say, and likely see nothing wrong with it, but happen to be stepping on toes with their comments. There's also a flipside issue of some folks being perhaps a little too sensitive, and LOOKING for attacks that aren't actually intended.

In an ideal world, everyone would give everyone else the benefit of the doubt, but some folks are developing reputations as being a little too harsh when it comes to interacting with people. As a result, they can literally say nothing "right" in the eyes of others. Personally, I'm hoping that the current discussion might make both sides aware of the issue and perhaps both sides will tread a little more carefully, being more respectful of the other person's perspective.

No one wants to be proud of something they've worked hard on, just to have it ripped apart, nor would I want to be accused of being a "total jerk" just because I phrased some observation in such a way that it might be considered rude. When it happens, everyone get's defensive and the disruption starts, but I'm telling you.. there's no one here for the sole purpose of making anyone feel bad.. not mods, nor members, and we'd all do well to remember that fact.

Great points. Respect is a virtue I really, really try to uphold, but it seems so hard when others don't want to return the favor! *sigh* Still, I try. And if I ever step out of line, I expect someone to correct me, and I hope others feel the same. After all, this is a community, and posting here should be considered a privilege, not a right.

While we're on the topic of morals (although this is still off topic...) don't be like my professor, not being able to show up for the final because she was arrested for DUI, at 6pm, on her way to class. The cherry on top? She's my ETHICS professor!