More Forum Name Updates

[Art Andrews]

Made a number of changes today to the Costume and Props Section of the site. Still a few more to go before we are done... but we are getting there!

 

[Kaya Tetsu]

The Elite Showcase is gone?

 

[Chernobyl]

Yes, the Showcase is gone. No, I'm not terribly impressed either, but hey ho, these things happen.

 

[Cadet]

Honestly, I am glad the "Elite Showcase" is gone. There were never any guidelines given for who got to be declared “Elite” and who didn’t. Often it was at the whim of the Admins. Builds were added to the “Elite Section” that were not finished, and some that were never finished, but they were added because they showed promise or the person was a friend of the Admins or Mods. Because of these lack of guidelines and almost arbitrary nature The Elite Section always smacked of favoritism to me. I honestly found the Elite Section to be more divisive and detrimental to Community than helpful.

And all the threads that were in the Showcase are all still linked in this thread:
http://www.405th.com/showthread.php/42333-Need-inspiration-Start-Here!-Elite-Halo-Costumes!

 

[Kusak3]

Be patient folks. Art has a plan. Ooohhh of course some people wont like it. But I got an info for you. Art is running the show his website set up the way he wants it to be set up. He owns the puppy and as The gentlemen that runs my MWO site states it you make yourselves to much of a pain in tail he will turn the lights off.

As far as I am concerned he can play all he wants. The site is already an improvement. When I first started here and actually registered I got locked out by the last server. What is the point belonging when you cant even get to the site. Now I can get here now we see much needed improvements. I like keep it up Art

 

[rundown]

Honestly, I am glad the "Elite Showcase" is gone. There were never any guidelines given for who got to be declared “Elite” and who didn’t. Often it was at the whim of the Admins. Builds were added to the “Elite Section” that were not finished, and some that were never finished, but they were added because they showed promise or the person was a friend of the Admins or Mods. Because of these lack of guidelines and almost arbitrary nature The Elite Section always smacked of favoritism to me. I honestly found the Elite Section to be more divisive and detrimental to Community than helpful.

And all the threads that were in the Showcase are all still linked in this thread:
http://www.405th.com/showthread.php/42333-Need-inspiration-Start-Here!-Elite-Halo-Costumes!

I tended to pick topics that were finished and had a good walkthrough of how they did it. I've never added things just because I knew the person.
Always tried to be somewhat objective eventhough it is only the view of a single person.
I don't even know most the people i've added.

But you are right, if there was favoritism it will certainly be gone now.

 

[Chernobyl]

Honestly, I am glad the "Elite Showcase" is gone. There were never any guidelines given for who got to be declared “Elite” and who didn’t. Often it was at the whim of the Admins.

Or from members promoting decent builds. The Showcase would have worked out fine had the guidelines actually been followed rather than taken as a suggestion (FINISHED builds, not in-progress builds - I'm looking at you, Thorssoli, Cereal) - yes, I'll agree, generally speaking the Elite Section got more attention from staff booting up their favourite builds rather than the community coming together to support and give recognition to the builds that truly deserved it.

And all the threads that were in the Showcase are all still linked in this thread:
http://www.405th.com/showthread.php/42333-Need-inspiration-Start-Here!-Elite-Halo-Costumes!

Which, frankly, is awful. Don't get me started on the current state of the Sticky Threads, but one thread hidden innocuously away amongst a set hardly promotes an outstanding build and gives it the recognition it deserves, and frankly, I'd be fairly upset to have put so much work into a build to have my only 'claim to fame' being a footnote in a buried Sticky Thread. The point of the place was to showcase off truly exceptional builds that deserved recognition for the time and effort that went into them. And yes, I know that half the fun of the hobby is to be proud of what you've done, but it's hardly a sin to want some recognition for the work you've put in that doesn't amount to being one of a few dozen links in an often-overlooked Sticky.

I'm not arguing that the Elite Forum be immediately reinstated exactly as it was - fair point raised, it has been grossly mis-managed in the past, and could have done with a decent overhaul. That said: while I'm in favour of redecorating and sprucing the place up, do we really have to go through the place with a wrecking ball, demolishing everything that's had issues? Some of the things we've lost on the 405th could have worked quite well had they just been maintained better by staff members and had rigid guidelines in place. I argue that the Elite Forum could still be a useful, valuable place to show off completed builds, the way it was meant to be originally.

Be patient folks. Art has a plan. Ooohhh of course some people wont like it. But I got an info for you. Art is running the show his website set up the way he wants it to be set up. He owns the puppy and as The gentlemen that runs my MWO site states it you make yourselves to much of a pain in tail he will turn the lights off.

EDIT: I fear I may have come across as slightly stand-offish, so I'll rework my post here:

Art doesn't seem like the sort of guy to say 'put up and shut up' with the way he runs the site. Yes, there are certain things he'll need to be inflexible about (rules/the Charter) but generally speaking, he's the best Site Admin we've ever had, by a long shot, and has encouraged every user to give feedback about what he's doing to the site.

Yes, Art owns the place now, and I'll agree: he does, within rights, have carte blanche to say 'right, this is how things are, shut up or get off the site' - but he's not done that. He's given us a place to discuss what's going on, and a voice to say whether or not the changes that are happening are good or popular. Good staff do that - it wouldn't do to simply run through the place doing as he pleases, to Hell with what everybody thinks. The 405th would sink faster than the Hindenburg with my mother on board if he did that.

 

[Cadet]

I tended to pick topics that were finished and had a good walkthrough of how they did it. I've never added things just because I knew the person.
Always tried to be somewhat objective eventhough it is only the view of a single person.
I don't even know most the people i've added.

But you are right, if there was favoritism it will certainly be gone now.

But the problem was that you weren't he only one moving topics to the Elite Showcase, and not everyone was using your guidelines, which were good. You might have only added builds that were finished and had walkthroughs, but there were threads in there where the build was never finished and honestly didn't even have that good of a walk through or tutorial. It was that inconsistency: that multiple people were doing it, each with their own criteria, and no standardization or shared guidelines, that made the Elite Showcase feel like a popularity contest and unfair and divisive.

 

[Kusak3]

EDIT: I fear I may have come across as slightly stand-offish, so I'll rework my post here:

Art doesn't seem like the sort of guy to say 'put up and shut up' with the way he runs the site. Yes, there are certain things he'll need to be inflexible about (rules/the Charter) but generally speaking, he's the best Site Admin we've ever had, by a long shot, and has encouraged every user to give feedback about what he's doing to the site.

Yes, Art owns the place now, and I'll agree: he does, within rights, have carte blanche to say 'right, this is how things are, shut up or get off the site' - but he's not done that. He's given us a place to discuss what's going on, and a voice to say whether or not the changes that are happening are good or popular. Good staff do that - it wouldn't do to simply run through the place doing as he pleases, to Hell with what everybody thinks. The 405th would sink faster than the Hindenburg with my mother on board if he did that.

Let me put it this way. And I am not trying to step on anyone's toe's or cause issues. As someone who has experience operating a website very similar to this one. Actually more than one in the last 20 some years of my life. It take's a certain amount of demolition to fix things. Ashuraa and I have done a lot of that demolition over the years to fix other sites that well had similar problems. And it causes a lot of chaos sometimes. Patience is the key word. Fixes do not come over night. Corrections take time. Currently Ashuraa and I work with the Enjin web system on the current website that her and I are admins on. Our particular MWO group has more automation and Tag's then any other enjin based website as of our last discussion with the Enjin web admins. A simple correction in access level's on a website that has over 700 members can take 2 to 3 hours of just fixing the existing tags on the website for one person. This site is a lot more open space. Without physically going and looking to see how many members I would suspect well a Lot more than we deal with on Skye Rangers. In a lot of ways it would be easier for Art to simply shut the sucker down. Backup the data bases. Delete every user from the site. Then simply delete everything else and then create the forums he wants in the configurations he wants and then make everyone start over again. Do we need to take a wild guess how much information would be simply lost? How many people would simply get fed up and walk away? But that would be the easiest for him and involve the least amount of personal time on his part.

I dont know Art from anyone else. I have had the personal pleasure of talking to him in person on the phone. I may be new here but I honestly believe he has the best interest of the 405th in mind. Yes it will probably cost a few members who feel they are having their toes stepped on. I will remind everyone to be patient and I will defend Art's efforts to improve a website that was obviously dying when I found it and bring some new life back to it and try to get the place going again.

No insults to anyone no intention to upset anyone . I will openly admit that I come across like a Tank at times. I am not a tactful person many of times I say what Im thinking and I move on. So please no one take it that I am pointing fingers. I am just stressing be patient and see. Sure change is not easy. The fact that he gives us a venue to voice our opinion means a heck of a lot for his intent.

 

[23Magnum]

But the problem was that you weren't he only one moving topics to the Elite Showcase, and not everyone was using your guidelines, which were good. You might have only added builds that were finished and had walkthroughs, but there were threads in there where the build was never finished and honestly didn't even have that good of a walk through or tutorial. It was that inconsistency: that multiple people were doing it, each with their own criteria, and no standardization or shared guidelines, that made the Elite Showcase feel like a popularity contest and unfair and divisive.

The unfinished ones only ever made it in because forum members would start crying out over and over and over to make it Elite before it was barely started. Excuse my bluntness but sometimes threads were put there just to shut people up.

 

[Chernobyl]

The unfinished ones only ever made it in because forum members would start crying out over and over and over to make it Elite before it was barely started. Excuse my bluntness but sometimes threads were put there just to shut people up.

Which is sort of my point - I mean no offence here at all, and no slight against the staff, but had the rules been more strictly adhered to, we'd still have an area for outstanding builds to be showcased that wasn't just an obscure and easily-overlooked topic with links.

The Elite Forum/Showcase can still work, hence my argument for its reinstatement - it simply needs to be policed a little more effectively. There's nothing wrong at all with elevating good work and showing it off.

 

[Art Andrews]

The Elite Showcase is gone?

The current version of it is gone, yes. We did create a single thread that links to every one of the threads that was in the Elite Showcase.

We are working on a plan that will show off member's work in the future, but it will be in a slightly different format that we have not finalized yet.

 

[Art Andrews]

Which, frankly, is awful. Don't get me started on the current state of the Sticky Threads, but one thread hidden innocuously away amongst a set hardly promotes an outstanding build and gives it the recognition it deserves, and frankly, I'd be fairly upset to have put so much work into a build to have my only 'claim to fame' being a footnote in a buried Sticky Thread. The point of the place was to showcase off truly exceptional builds that deserved recognition for the time and effort that went into them. And yes, I know that half the fun of the hobby is to be proud of what you've done, but it's hardly a sin to want some recognition for the work you've put in that doesn't amount to being one of a few dozen links in an often-overlooked Sticky.

Don't misunderstand the purpose of putting the past Elite threads in a single stuck thread. That thread is NOT a replacement for the Elite forum, it is simply an answer to "I can't find any of the threads that were in the Elite forum" until we have the time to develop a new system to show off the amazing work our members are creating.

That said: while I'm in favour of redecorating and sprucing the place up, do we really have to go through the place with a wrecking ball, demolishing everything that's had issues? Some of the things we've lost on the 405th could have worked quite well had they just been maintained better by staff members and had rigid guidelines in place. I argue that the Elite Forum could still be a useful, valuable place to show off completed builds, the way it was meant to be originally.

Something to keep in mind about the approach we are taking; we are not looking to redecorate or spruce things up. We see an amazing community here at the 405th and we feel like that community is not being served as it should be from an infrastructure side. Serving you is not putting pretty pictures at the top of the page. Serving you is going through the entirety of the software that this community uses and saying "is this the best it can be and is there a way it could be reconfigured to better serve the community?" In many instances the changes can be made very quickly, almost on the fly. Others are changes that in and of themselves may not make sense, but are usually part of a larger plan. The removal of the elite forum had a number of reasons and you won't see it back for some time because when a version of it does come back, it will be part of a much larger rollout.

One of my shortcomings is that I tend to be a doer instead of a talker. I am all about "getting it done" instead of endlessly telling everyone what I am going to do. This often results in things happening that people don't understand because I didn't explain it... then we often have what we are having here... Please be patient with me on that point as my main focus is centered on getting things up to speed here instead of just talking about getting things up to speed.

 

[Vrogy]

It's a change for the best, I think. As mentioned, figuring out how to feature the best content here without human intervention, or with a set of parameters controlling things, is probably best for the health of the forum.

 

[Chernobyl]

Don't misunderstand the purpose of putting the past Elite threads in a single stuck thread. That thread is NOT a replacement for the Elite forum, it is simply an answer to "I can't find any of the threads that were in the Elite forum" until we have the time to develop a new system to show off the amazing work our members are creating.

Understood. Had I known this I'd have been far more receptive to the idea.

It's a change for the best, I think. As mentioned, figuring out how to feature the best content here without human intervention, or with a set of parameters controlling things, is probably best for the health of the forum.

That's.... hit and miss, I'd argue. You're always going to have people saying 'but X's build looks superb, why can't they be featured?' or 'but Y's build is awful! Why have they been promoted?' - that's just the nature of showcasing items. Simply slotting builds into a 'finished' category probably won't be enough, and grading pieces always comes with an amount of bias - that's just the way things work. One man's trash, and all that...

As I'm sure we can all agree: there's nothing wrong with featuring builds. HOW to feature them is something we're going to have to hash out.

 

[Kaya Tetsu]

Well since you're re arranging things anyway, could we possibly have a gaming forum/sub-forum? Somewhere to organize game nights? 405th game nights used to be a lot of fun, even if they usually ended with me losing, lol.

 

[Dagger06]

Well since you're re arranging things anyway, could we possibly have a gaming forum/sub-forum? Somewhere to organize game nights? 405th game nights used to be a lot of fun, even if they usually ended with me losing, lol.

Game nights would be fun! I do think a concern would be whether we have the traffic to fill a gaming sub-forum, but a thread in either the Halo section or in the "Conventions & Prop Parties" might work? (I feel like conventions and prop parties also covers general gatherings) I know WandererTJ has spearheaded a couple of Destiny 405th groups in the Off-Topic section.

 

[Kaya Tetsu]

Game nights would be fun! I do think a concern would be whether we have the traffic to fill a gaming sub-forum, but a thread in either the Halo section or in the "Conventions & Prop Parties" might work? (I feel like conventions and prop parties also covers general gatherings) I know @WandererTJ has spearheaded a couple of Destiny 405th groups in the Off-Topic section.

Possibly. In the olden days we would play halo 3 into the wee hours of the morning. That was a long time ago now, lol.

 

[WandererTJ]

Possibly. In the olden days we would play halo 3 into the wee hours of the morning. That was a long time ago now, lol.

Here is the Destiny thread:
http://www.405th.com/showthread.php/42163-Gaming-The-405th-s-Destiny-Clan-(Caution-Spoilers)

I will point out that I don't mind making the thread the universal thread for 405th members to get together for any game, but if things get out of hand, I will switch gears and ask that the focus be only on Destiny.


I have already brought up the idea of adding the feature for gaming sessions here, and it is not something that is going to be addressed, especially while other matters need to be attended to.
Currently, I think that it would be easiest for all of us to simply join Trueachievements.com and use it's Gaming Session features that are in place.

 

[Art Andrews]

It looks like some type of gaming session planner was developed from vbulletin's calendar software.

I am not sure what you are looking for specifically, but at some point, we might be able to create something. You would have to be more specific about what you wanted.