Why can't we be friends?

[JediStumpy]

This forum and community have come along way and with advancing comes changes. For a while the changes were for the better. I truly believe that can remain. People are just getting back into their natural routine of being about themelves. I hope some of you can contest to the time when members did things for one another. I have been gone for a lil while due to this deployment crap and I come back to seeing dramaand issues. I only hope I can partake once again and help bring some things back. The Older Members like Lee, Privateer, Ben Streeper, Adam, Sean Bradley, Brandon, Das Brutus, Johnny and many others hve paived a way but it is up to the new Members to continue duing so. Take those great examples and even the not so great examples and build. Instead of worrying about what other Members are doing that hurts the Community, focus on what you as an Member can do to make it better. We have done it before and will do it again, the cycle continues.

Ithica

As a long time member here (longer than anyone who has posted so far) Ithica does make a good point. I have seen the age of members dropping to younger and younger. I'm am not saying this is bad but you just have to expect that there are many teenagers on here who grew up with the internet and have gotten used to the way people talk on the interest (how ever that is per-say). But the older members (both in age and in membership) tend to talk on this forum with more professionalize I have observed. Like Ithica said the older members pave the way and we need to lead by example. They'll catch on. It just takes time. Shoot I remember when Ithica joined and started post videos with every post. That caught on and now he is a Mod!


Maybe I should of posted a video instead...:rolleyes

Thanks for stopping by Dave! Stay Safe!

 

[SchizophrenicMC]

Ithica, while I agree, there's a lot of complaining about the bad, there's still a lot of work for the good. I mean, I used to get PMs a whole lot, asking how to do [Insert Stickied Thread Here] and it just started to irk me. I mean, I'm glad to contribute what I know, but when that's repeating the same, old, "Check the stickies", it grows tiresome. And, yeah, it hasn't happened to me as much as others, but I ain't quit, yet. A couple times, I've brought up what I've thought could help breed confidence and the basic skills we all use, into the noobs. It ain't hard to learn how to learn.

And that's all I ask of people before they ask something of me. That they learn how to learn how to do what they want. I don't care if I'm asked a stupid question, I'm glad to answer it. But, when I'm asked a stupid question that's answered in nice, bold text, on some thread that's literally always on top of the first forum they can read, it pushes me to hostility. And, that's what I've noted in all the members who've quit because of this.

As much as you have to ask the existing members to make it better, you really have to ask the new kids to not make it worse. And, if they can't stop making it worse, you gotta stop them from being able to, right?

I dunno, I've just lost a lot of faith in the 405th, watching all these good people leave, and seeing the growth in noobs who can't fend for themselves. Proves how die-hard I am, eh? :/

But, welcome back, Ithica. Missed seein' the newest thing you'd come up with in that mind o' yours. Maybe as you, and, perhaps some of the other vets on hiatus come back, we can all grab a footing again, and build back up to the proud establishment the 405th once was.

 

[Dreadnaught]

Being a very new noob, I see this from both sides of the argument. I fully and totally agree that before they start banging out questions and demanding that someone make them something for free, they need to just shut up and read the stickies. I've read a bunch of them, and even I have some issues wrapping my head around the details... I'm an Airframe and Powerplant mechanic and I know how to do fiberglass and resin structural builds. But the intricacy of the work I've seen from many of the people here is way beyond me, detail wise.

Anyway, I confess to being one of those who sometimes gives in to the "I want it now!!!" tantrum. I have contracted with a member of this site to have a suit built, both because "I want it now" and because where I live makes building armor somewhat difficult, due to the rules. I fully intend on building one myself, and have been combing the forum's members who are doing Jorge builds for ideas and pointers. I ask questions and offer some observances, but I always try to keep it respectful. After all, the ones I'm talking with have made at least one suit, and I have not.

Being one of the older members, agewise, I feel that it should fall upon me to present myself as someone who is calm, mature, and easy to talk with. It doesn't mean I suffer idiots gladly, I just have to keep my biting tongue away from the keyboard.

I, for one, am glad to have found this forum. I've thought from time to time about building a suit before discovering this site, and now that desire is becoming reality. I appreciate all of the aid and advice you guys have given over your time here, and I fully understand how tempers can become short (I run a forum and sometimes I get theat way, even with long-time members). Just remember that not all of us noobs are kids who weren't raised properly by their parents, or overaged adolescents who still think that they deserve to be handed everything.

Thanks again, guys,

Dread

 

[adventchildmatrix]

ok first id like to say its good to hear from you ithica, good to hear your still in one piece and secondly.................PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DONT EVA LEAVE!! you are by far one of the coolest people here........'composing myself'

ok where was i... i just thought of something, instead of putting a window for applications why not put a dedication approval. you have to build at least a full pep suit(no fiberglass ect.) (or something else substantial) to become even a noob. that would certainly weed out the people who dont care or are just in it for personal gain. if anything, thats the one thing (mostly) that all the disrespectful people have in common.

sorry to put a dampner on your idea but people join this group to learn how to make a set of armour
heck i still haven't made a complete set and ive been here 2 years (i really should finish some of my projects (i got half a Hunter running around in my room and 3/4 of a busa helm in my display cabinet) but back on point we cant close the doors to none armour owners as that would be taking a similar if not the same stand that the 501st operate on using your idea will just encourage recasters who can sell to the people who are desperate to share ideas and learn.

 

[soul products]

sorry to put a dampner on your idea but people join this group to learn how to make a set of armour
heck i still haven't made a complete set and ive been here 2 years (i really should finish some of my projects (i got half a Hunter running around in my room and 3/4 of a busa helm in my display cabinet) but back on point we cant close the doors to none armour owners as that would be taking a similar if not the same stand that the 501st operate on using your idea will just encourage recasters who can sell to the people who are desperate to share ideas and learn.

well that was just a rough idea. of course i know that these suits take time but i meant it more as a dedication thing. prove to us that you are dedicated is all i meant. i completly understand your point

 

[Boba Fett]

sorry to put a dampner on your idea but people join this group to learn how to make a set of armour
heck i still haven't made a complete set and ive been here 2 years (i really should finish some of my projects (i got half a Hunter running around in my room and 3/4 of a busa helm in my display cabinet) but back on point we cant close the doors to none armour owners as that would be taking a similar if not the same stand that the 501st operate on using your idea will just encourage recasters who can sell to the people who are desperate to share ideas and learn.

What I was going to say. Sadly, I have been unable to build most of a suit as of yet! That is mostly due to financial issues and my mom being in the way a bit, but I've been working on a lot of ideas. We're here to learn. If you try to screen people that way, not only will the 405th. get a rep for eliteisms lightyears beyond the 501st, nobody else will join.

I know people like this will be around no matter what, but if we could reduce thir numbers, the enjoyment of the whole community is far better.

 

[Jester1014]

What I was going to say. Sadly, I have been unable to build most of a suit as of yet! That is mostly due to financial issues and my mom being in the way a bit, but I've been working on a lot of ideas. We're here to learn. If you try to screen people that way, not only will the 405th. get a rep for eliteisms lightyears beyond the 501st, nobody else will join.

I know people like this will be around no matter what, but if we could reduce thir numbers, the enjoyment of the whole community is far better.

And that "Eliteism" is the exact reason why I did NOT try to get into the 501st. They can keep their gimpy Vac-forms. The only way to get in now, is you have to know a member personally. Or at least it's what I was told by two members.

But I had another Idea. Why not a Mod or a senior model with decent credibility talk to these kid or adolecents through pms and find out what their intentions are. Whether they just want to cause trouble with their "I want it nows!" or if they're actually reading and learning. Heck if some want it that badly and can pay for it, I've told some to go through the Classifieds. When I told of few of the Noobs about that area, They calmed down big time. They asked how to get in there, and i just replied by telling them they needed to read up on the armor making process to get a good idea of whats involved, and to check the dates of the posts. I got a few good PMs back from some who took my advice and are learning now.
I also took what I typed copied it to my sticky notes on my laptop, so everytime one pops up I just copy and paste. Alot less of my time wasted. That was one thing I found myself getting mad at really, was continuously re-typing somethingI've previously said.

 

[Boba Fett]

well, let's not go into bashing the 501st. We've got enough problems here as it is, let's not up the ante...

problem with trying to pm people is it requires a lot of time and is mind-numbing. To accomplish that, you would need to drastically increase the size of the staff. and that has issues of its own...

 

[Devious]

Its not just the fault of the noobs, its ours too. Yes we are constantly answering their questions but its not going to permanently fix anything as a new noob is going to come along in the next few days ans ASK EXACTLY the same thing. We need a to stop the problem at the source, and that's not noobs themselves. The reason they ask so many questions that we would think of as stupid is because they can't find the info easily. Yes we have stickies, yes we have a search feature, but that can just cause more frustration. There's so many stickies and out of date tutorials, I'm not surprised we have this number of frustrated noobs. Yes the tutorials are useful, but they were made at different times by different people, with different materials. So much has changed since then. So here is what I propose:

A 405TH HANDBOOK

It would be a PDF and a locked forum topic, in the welcome forum (Ill get back to that later). This handbook will be the mother of all tutorials. It will cover every step of the armor making process, and every current sticky will be rewritten. It will also include foam armor building, mudglassing, and other underrated yet fantastic building methods. Once this is created, noobs will have NO excuse, to ask a dumb question, cause all we will have to say is; "Its in the handbook". All the tutorials will connect with one another so its easy to understand, and connect ideas. There won't be any copy pasted stuff from old tuts, but credit will be given to the original inventor.

How do we ensure all noobs get/read this? With a welcome forum. When a noob joins the only forum they will be able see is the welcome forum, all others including the noob forum will be hidden like the classifieds. The welcome forum will have one sticky: one will tell the noobs how to be a respectful member, not to recast etc. It will also tell the noobs how to write their introduction post. This post must include 3 goals, and proof that a member understands the rules and expectations of the community. Essentially they have to restate the rules in their own words. once they have made their intro post, a mod can grant them full access tot he forum if they are happy with that persons statement.

Now this is a big undertaking, but I think it will greatly improve the forum, for everyone's sakes. I'm willing to start making the Handbook, but ill need helpers, as I cant take all the photos and draw all the illustrations by me lonesome. Anyone interested PM me.

 

[Boba Fett]

Actually, the past month I've been compiling a document of all the methods to how to use pep. I'm about a third of the way through, and it needs some editing. The porblem, this method is so broad. It can be used so many ways, heck, you can use sheet stryene, foam, even metal in place of paper.

 

[Devious]

Tthat would make an excellent addition to the guide.

 

[rumble]

And that "Eliteism" is the exact reason why I did NOT try to get into the 501st. They can keep their gimpy Vac-forms. The only way to get in now, is you have to know a member personally. Or at least it's what I was told by two members.

Slight aside, but I don't like seeing misinformation out there. That's not true at all. The process is the costumer sends his costume in to the national 501st site and the membership officer in the garrison (or the legion membership officer, depending on the costume) approves or disapproves of a costume (with a lengthy breakdown of what needs fixing going to the costumer). If someone in the local garrison is acting like a jerk and not doing his/her job right(which should NOT be happening - if it is, the legion council needs to know to get them removed ASAP), there's the option to go over their head completely to first the garrison's commanding officer, then to the legion-wide council, specifically to keep that kind of crap from happening.

It may not be a bad time to close down sign-ups just have a healing period for everyone to take a deep breath and let things settle down.

 

[Akademee]

It may not be a bad time to close down sign-ups just have a healing period for everyone to take a deep breath and let things settle down.

Personally, I found this site while I was looking around Youtube and found an armor video, and when I came to the site for the first time, the registration was closed. Sure it irked me for a while, but it gave me time to read and mull about the forums without cluttering up topics with my n00bish questions. It gave me an opportunity to read through the stickies, get familiar with the search functions, and get a better idea of what I was getting into.

I would consider myself a respectful person on the internet, but I can't shake the feeling that my love of craftsmanship and halo combined in one place would have, in essence, overloaded my composure and I would have ended up as one of the derogatory n00bs that this thread is directed against.

I fully support the temporary closing of the registration. The reality of the internet is as follows:

Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE can use the internet (any age group)
The most savvy users have most likely grown up with it and are now used to instantaneous results (I know I am)
The faster the flow of information gets, the faster we want to make it flow. (i.e., the poor grammar and txt language)
Many people see the internet as a consequence-less environment (disrespecting/insulting/stealing from people is "safe")
What happens on the internet exists forever (so take some time to credit your thoughts)

 

[Boba Fett]

Slight aside, but I don't like seeing misinformation out there. That's not true at all. The process is the costumer sends his costume in to the national 501st site and the membership officer in the garrison (or the legion membership officer, depending on the costume) approves or disapproves of a costume (with a lengthy breakdown of what needs fixing going to the costumer). If someone in the local garrison is acting like a jerk and not doing his/her job right(which should NOT be happening - if it is, the legion council needs to know to get them removed ASAP), there's the option to go over their head completely to first the garrison's commanding officer, then to the legion-wide council, specifically to keep that kind of crap from happening.

It may not be a bad time to close down sign-ups just have a healing period for everyone to take a deep breath and let things settle down.

I've heard horror stories of political crap going on, but most of it's probably not true. Let's get past this now...

The closed registration seems to have been the best course of action. Say we have a 1-week period every 3-4 months. Plenty of time to read over tutorials, stickys, etc. Then everybody is more informed, and less "n00b" questions. IT becomes cleaner, more fun, and overall, happiness increases.

 

[rumble]

Roger, roger Boba. There's good and bad in every group, but I felt like I had to address that particular phrasing. I'd do the same if the 405th was getting misrepresented somewhere, hope it didn't irk anyone.

Some other groups that I'm in do something similiar; around specific times of year (cons, big recruitment times), they open up registration and let anyone in. The only reason it was limited in the first place was due to spam, but it seems like it works. If someone recruits a possible new member at another time of the year, they can kick a PM to the guy over registration and get them in. In that group's case, it's Mega Con and Dragon Con as those are the two big events we do. Here, it could be D*C and some other time on the other side of the year. That would limit the spam the site seems to get whenever a game or some new Halo news comes out and focus on costumers trying to learn the craft - and they can always be pulled in by a standing member.

Another site I'm on has a sponsorship to where two current members have to sponser an incoming newbie before the newbie gets access and are on the hook if the newbie starts messing around. That could be a good way as well, or even a combination of the two. Just coming from someone who's ran a myriad of sites over the years, I'd say open membership a few times a year, then do the sponsorship requirement the rest of the year.

And, leave the build and tutorial forums open so anyone can read them and study if they can't get access just yet. I'd close off the chatting forums though just for the safety of the membership.

 

[CoolC]

...It may not be a bad time to close down sign-ups just have a healing period for everyone to take a deep breath and let things settle down.

I have been reading 405th since last November. In May I decided to join to post some of the photos. Since then I have continue to read and contribute as much as I could. I consider myself a noob but I would not go on ranting wanting this and that. All information is in here - all the new members need is time to read through the forum. I've seen some posts telling their childish dreams of building an armor and their ranting for not getting what they need...sigh!

I totally agree with shutting down new member registration. I recommend closing new member registration for 3 months. Any noob can still continue to learn how to make a costume without signing up. The only thing that they cannot do is post stupid questions and piss everyone off with their ranting. Of couse there is the risk that someone decides to DDOS the system because they cannot join the forum. All the veterans will probably remember when 405th went out of commission due to DDOS earlier in the year.

 

[Boba Fett]

True, but do you want that person who is so childish to do a DDOS attack on your forum? And if they get banned, they'd be just as likely to do the DDOS anyway.

 

[0235]

one rule i use is if someone posts somthing in your thred, be kind enough to go have a look at what they are doing, and give them support. people who are new, generally flock to people who are also quite new, but also show progress.

 

[Spartan 279]

Well. I know the feeling. I have been on this forum for a while. This is actually my second account. I had one a WHILE ago, like in 08-09. But when my computer broke for half a year and everything in my world turned upside down. I have had experience here. I know how things work and why they are that way. I believe Nintendude leaving is a real shame. I have also read through the whole official reach pep forum. I have seen ALOT of brand new users asking for the JFO, along with everything else that same night. Models take a WHILE to make. i'm not trying to be rude but half of them would just end up wasting 50 sheets of paper. I'm all for them learning but still. When i do get a printer for my birthday on the 22nd of this month, I will also become an armor maker. Hope I got my point across
EDIT- i dont even remember my old accounts name and i never really posted anything from it, so do not ban me for duplicate accounts because it really is not. That was an account from 2 yrs ago which i havent used in like a a year and a half and will never use again xD

 

[SchizophrenicMC]

A 405TH HANDBOOK

We already have one. It's called the Stickies. Noobs don't read them, why would they download and read a massive PDF? As good an idea as it is, I don't think it's a solution.

Akademee, I basically have the same story as you, there. And, I agree, it was having to wait for reg to open that made me as civil as I am, now.

While I disagree with the 501st's Elitism, their limit on registration is a pretty sound idea. There aren't idiots, for lack of a better term, in the 501st. So, I think the 405th needs to close registration for awhile, and only open it occasionally, for a short period, to let new guys jump on our bandwagon. It would give people a chance to learn before they joined, and ask stupid questions. I'm sure every, single member of this forum has the intelligence to do anything any other member can do. Giddiness can override that intelligence, though.

So, I guess, my point is, sober the new kids up by makin' 'em wait to register. Gives 'em a chance to learn.