Brandon McClain
Well-Known Member
Did Adam ever post up those descriptions? Any other follow up on the changes discussed??
405th Veteran Chat Discussion - IMPORTANT
- Thread starter Xtreme TACTICS 101
- Start date
- Status
I made up (with the help of h1rg0n) an application format for Moderators, and sent it to Xtreme TACTICS 101, Adam, Sean Bradley, Alexspartan117, and of course h1rg0n. I have not heard back from Adam or Sean Bradley about this yet but everyone else seems to like it. I was not too sure if i should post it here yet because i have not heard from Adam or Sean yet.
Let me know if you want me to post it for all to see and i will.
Let me know if you want me to post it for all to see and i will.
Day late and a dollar short! I always miss the good parties!
I go on vacation and some one starts a revolution!
Sorry I wasn't there but I would like to voice my opinions on the subjects. And I would love to be a part of the next meeting.
1) Cookies to xtreme for taking the INT on this and being mature enough to change his tone and keep pressing this forward. That shows great leadership!
2) Kudos to Adam for jumping in here and being a part of this discussion. That really validates the idea that things may actually change.
3) Lasagna to Sean for the meeting minutes. I hope you like Lasagna!
To start I would like to say that I actually like the new vBulletin system. I was leery at first but it seems to work out much better than the original board. It's cleaner and faster.
Stickies:
This is really about Site Navigation. The main purpose of the site is to do what? Teach people how to build their own armor. Currently all of this information resides in the stickies but it should be the main focus of the website. The forums are a place to build community and ask questions but the main pages of the site need to address the mission and purpose of the site.
I believe this can be better organized by creating a landing page for the site that hosts Official Tutorials, Feature Builder/Elite Gallery Blog(like the previous site started to do), and the Official Pepakura page. This is the core of the 405th
To highlight and showcase these pages in the Forum Description area for each forum. Like a sub navigation system pointing back to the main page.
For example in the Noob section instead of the text "New to the site and not sure where to start? Come here first. You'll have to figure out where you're going before jumping in! If you're new, you can only post new topics here."
There could be a several graphics that say "Click here to get started", "Click here to learn about Pepakura", "Click to learn how to Scale your armor" These will point back to the main site giving the user access to site approved tutorials. The forums will still host alternative ideas and techniques but the main purpose is to get people interested and involved with projects that are easily completable.
Graphics are always better than stickies, people are visual and these would grab visitor's attention.
Elite Gallery:
To best honor Elite members we should give them graphic badges and special titles as well as highlight them in Blogs and Featured Member articles. These are the elite and featuring their hard work on the main site make the 405th look good as well as gives the elite member well deserved attention they deserve.
I not talking about a 1000 word article but instead a dossier profile and several pictures and a link to thier WIP thread. Easy cheesy done in 10 minutes.
Pepakura:
This page should be as simple as possible and shouldn't try to incorporate everything because updating it would be a nightmare. Instead I suggest it feature one complete set of armor. This is should allow any new visitors the ability to test their skills and build a complete suit.
I then suggest that each individual host their own 4shared.com(file share site) account and Pepakura file site. The Pepakura page will then link to these sites separately. This allows the artist to maintain control and responsibility for his own work and there they can charge for their work or take donations. It also takes the work off the 405th team by not having to approve and update every file that may be available. It will also increase the site's Search Engine Optimization (SEO) by having many sites linking back to the main site. Sites that may not be exclusively Halo which increases the search terms available to find the 405th.
Pepakura Donations:
I like this idea and I think regulating it or defining it on the 405th should be left up to the community. To me this is an individual choice or responsibility. The 405th should simply condone it and let the community decide if it si something the designers want to do.
I am a strong believer in Capitalism. Let the market determine the viability of a donation system or even a paid system, no need to regulate it just approve the concept.
Run limits:
Capitalism! I disagree with this idea. I don't think anyone could flood the market with pieces. Those people who are here for the quick build will pay for what they want when they want it. It's not going to stop people from building their own and selling them. What will determine the success of an e-commerce system for this site is not run limits but the quality of the workmanship.
Builders can set a limit to increase urgency but the quality of their work is what will really determine the value.
For example: If I am in need of a piece and I only have $50 then I will only be able to afford a piece of $50 quality where as if I have $500 I could afford much better quality.
There is no need to rethink basic economics to a run limit because less talented artists feel like they should be entitled to a piece of the market share.
(here's the bomb) I will also say that this will deter recasting because there is actually more value buying from the original builder than the knock off. There will always be re casters and their workmanship is no where near that of the original builder and it never will be. Others wise they would have built one themselves. And there will always be someone who will buy that knock off. It happens all the time in the real world!
So to worry about being recast is fruitless. Instead focus on quality and commerce will prosper. Add something of real value to the pieces like a certificate of authenticity, or a warranty or a limited edition number. Extend the value beyond the actual piece.
And lastly, Sean are you going to eat all of that Lasagna?
I really like the minutes of the meeting being posted so others can reply and respond accordingly.
I am not sure if you are following Procedures but I recommend posting the meeting minutes for the community(senior members) to review, then open the discuss of the additions in the Old Business section of the meeting. If anyone in attendance would like to discuss the additions they can do so if not old business can be approve and passed.
Oh and I think that you should create a council of Senior Members. These are the people who are in charge of the site and it's functionality. Not every member will have a job like editor, designer... but they have a voice because of their experiences and abilities on and off the site. This is like a Board of Directors and these board members should pay dues in order to help cut the costs of the site so Adam doesn't have to front the bill entirely or at all. The Board will have a vote on site decisions and there should be an election of board members by the community members. Terms of 2 year minimum 6 year Max with a 1 year reprieve before re-election.
I know this looks like it takes the ownership from Adam but I think a BOD of committed people could maintain and advance the site faster than relying on one individual to maintain the entire system. After all everyone here has lives outside of the site and real life can cause absences or leave at unexpected times and having alternatives and back-ups is always recommended.
Peace,
chwbcc
Jerry Witman
chwbcc@cfl.rr.com
I go on vacation and some one starts a revolution!
Sorry I wasn't there but I would like to voice my opinions on the subjects. And I would love to be a part of the next meeting.
1) Cookies to xtreme for taking the INT on this and being mature enough to change his tone and keep pressing this forward. That shows great leadership!
2) Kudos to Adam for jumping in here and being a part of this discussion. That really validates the idea that things may actually change.
3) Lasagna to Sean for the meeting minutes. I hope you like Lasagna!
To start I would like to say that I actually like the new vBulletin system. I was leery at first but it seems to work out much better than the original board. It's cleaner and faster.
Stickies:
This is really about Site Navigation. The main purpose of the site is to do what? Teach people how to build their own armor. Currently all of this information resides in the stickies but it should be the main focus of the website. The forums are a place to build community and ask questions but the main pages of the site need to address the mission and purpose of the site.
I believe this can be better organized by creating a landing page for the site that hosts Official Tutorials, Feature Builder/Elite Gallery Blog(like the previous site started to do), and the Official Pepakura page. This is the core of the 405th
To highlight and showcase these pages in the Forum Description area for each forum. Like a sub navigation system pointing back to the main page.
For example in the Noob section instead of the text "New to the site and not sure where to start? Come here first. You'll have to figure out where you're going before jumping in! If you're new, you can only post new topics here."
There could be a several graphics that say "Click here to get started", "Click here to learn about Pepakura", "Click to learn how to Scale your armor" These will point back to the main site giving the user access to site approved tutorials. The forums will still host alternative ideas and techniques but the main purpose is to get people interested and involved with projects that are easily completable.
Graphics are always better than stickies, people are visual and these would grab visitor's attention.
Elite Gallery:
To best honor Elite members we should give them graphic badges and special titles as well as highlight them in Blogs and Featured Member articles. These are the elite and featuring their hard work on the main site make the 405th look good as well as gives the elite member well deserved attention they deserve.
I not talking about a 1000 word article but instead a dossier profile and several pictures and a link to thier WIP thread. Easy cheesy done in 10 minutes.
Pepakura:
This page should be as simple as possible and shouldn't try to incorporate everything because updating it would be a nightmare. Instead I suggest it feature one complete set of armor. This is should allow any new visitors the ability to test their skills and build a complete suit.
I then suggest that each individual host their own 4shared.com(file share site) account and Pepakura file site. The Pepakura page will then link to these sites separately. This allows the artist to maintain control and responsibility for his own work and there they can charge for their work or take donations. It also takes the work off the 405th team by not having to approve and update every file that may be available. It will also increase the site's Search Engine Optimization (SEO) by having many sites linking back to the main site. Sites that may not be exclusively Halo which increases the search terms available to find the 405th.
Pepakura Donations:
I like this idea and I think regulating it or defining it on the 405th should be left up to the community. To me this is an individual choice or responsibility. The 405th should simply condone it and let the community decide if it si something the designers want to do.
I am a strong believer in Capitalism. Let the market determine the viability of a donation system or even a paid system, no need to regulate it just approve the concept.
Run limits:
Capitalism! I disagree with this idea. I don't think anyone could flood the market with pieces. Those people who are here for the quick build will pay for what they want when they want it. It's not going to stop people from building their own and selling them. What will determine the success of an e-commerce system for this site is not run limits but the quality of the workmanship.
Builders can set a limit to increase urgency but the quality of their work is what will really determine the value.
For example: If I am in need of a piece and I only have $50 then I will only be able to afford a piece of $50 quality where as if I have $500 I could afford much better quality.
There is no need to rethink basic economics to a run limit because less talented artists feel like they should be entitled to a piece of the market share.
(here's the bomb) I will also say that this will deter recasting because there is actually more value buying from the original builder than the knock off. There will always be re casters and their workmanship is no where near that of the original builder and it never will be. Others wise they would have built one themselves. And there will always be someone who will buy that knock off. It happens all the time in the real world!
So to worry about being recast is fruitless. Instead focus on quality and commerce will prosper. Add something of real value to the pieces like a certificate of authenticity, or a warranty or a limited edition number. Extend the value beyond the actual piece.
And lastly, Sean are you going to eat all of that Lasagna?
I really like the minutes of the meeting being posted so others can reply and respond accordingly.
I am not sure if you are following Procedures but I recommend posting the meeting minutes for the community(senior members) to review, then open the discuss of the additions in the Old Business section of the meeting. If anyone in attendance would like to discuss the additions they can do so if not old business can be approve and passed.
Oh and I think that you should create a council of Senior Members. These are the people who are in charge of the site and it's functionality. Not every member will have a job like editor, designer... but they have a voice because of their experiences and abilities on and off the site. This is like a Board of Directors and these board members should pay dues in order to help cut the costs of the site so Adam doesn't have to front the bill entirely or at all. The Board will have a vote on site decisions and there should be an election of board members by the community members. Terms of 2 year minimum 6 year Max with a 1 year reprieve before re-election.
I know this looks like it takes the ownership from Adam but I think a BOD of committed people could maintain and advance the site faster than relying on one individual to maintain the entire system. After all everyone here has lives outside of the site and real life can cause absences or leave at unexpected times and having alternatives and back-ups is always recommended.
Peace,
chwbcc
Jerry Witman
chwbcc@cfl.rr.com
Sean Bradley
Sr Member
*OM NOM NOM* Eats lasagna. Thanks!
Agreed with above, excellent suggestions man, keep it coming!
Agreed with above, excellent suggestions man, keep it coming!
I like your suggestions man, but I was thinking of having a page that has tutorials of all the people that have made tutorials and new tutorials for making props, armor, and electronics, excr.
and another part (and this would probably not be feasibe...) is to have tutorials in "Topics" based on who wrote what...again probably not feasible, and have those as the tuts page.
And the Tutorials page would be for tutorials only.
and another part (and this would probably not be feasibe...) is to have tutorials in "Topics" based on who wrote what...again probably not feasible, and have those as the tuts page.
And the Tutorials page would be for tutorials only.
RadioactiveMicrobe
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys for the support
@Tyver I agree it's difficult to handle all the different ideas from all the great tutorials, however I believe the 405th needs to set a standard to get people educated on the basic topics. The forums will still feature alternative ideas the community has developed. When an idea in the forum become fairly common or a standard way of doing something it the tutorials can be amended or added to the page. After the board of course votes on the amendment.
The idea is to keep it simple and establish a standard the community can relate to and allow the forums to offer suggestion and improvements to the established base.
It would be really cool to establish committees to develop these tutorials, people who have the best tuts compile all the information and assemble a comprehensive book on the entire process. This way we won't need multiple Topics but simple references to them and give credit to the authors.
@Tyver I agree it's difficult to handle all the different ideas from all the great tutorials, however I believe the 405th needs to set a standard to get people educated on the basic topics. The forums will still feature alternative ideas the community has developed. When an idea in the forum become fairly common or a standard way of doing something it the tutorials can be amended or added to the page. After the board of course votes on the amendment.
The idea is to keep it simple and establish a standard the community can relate to and allow the forums to offer suggestion and improvements to the established base.
It would be really cool to establish committees to develop these tutorials, people who have the best tuts compile all the information and assemble a comprehensive book on the entire process. This way we won't need multiple Topics but simple references to them and give credit to the authors.
chwbcc1, I totally agree with your idea on the tutorials. Since their goal is to effectively educate new members, they need to be easy to update with new info, easy to find (and link to), and free of clutter. I don't think the current system of forum threads promotes any of those things. My first thought would be a very access-controlled "wiki" of tutorials integrated into the site. (How feasible setting something like that up is, however, is beyond my limited knowledge of back-end site architecture). Members could propose changes or additions on "talk" pages or in the forums, Mods (or wiki-specific editors?) could add them to the pages.
Also, I think it would be great to make some of the video tutorials easier to find. We have some great ones, and they often get forgotten about or languish in obscurity.
Also, I think it would be great to make some of the video tutorials easier to find. We have some great ones, and they often get forgotten about or languish in obscurity.
Hey guys anyone got any updates on some of the stuff that was talked about in the last meeting?
Also i guess here's a quick reminder about the next meeting to occur onAugust 1st 2010 at 4pm EST
Also i guess here's a quick reminder about the next meeting to occur onAugust 1st 2010 at 4pm EST
Last edited by a moderator:
AlexSpartan177
Well-Known Member
Last edited by a moderator:
You know it's good to actually be on the outside sometimes because you can see things from a birds eye view and not get caught up in the excitement or the frustrations that happen in the moment.
Dagger06
Well-Known Member
Aye, that's true.
I think a lot of the updates and such are on the backburner for a bit as people prep for D*Con and deal with personal things...like getting really fancy weddings with crazy fireworks and trips to Disneyworld. Dangit, I want to ride the teacups. And Star Tours. Did you know it's getting a major overhaul? But I digress.
I've been working on trying to get the regional stuff for California/Pacific coast more organized. I definitely think our strong showing at Comic Con was a good indicator of things to come.
I believe we have to have a very firm stance on recasting, as it is something that kills creativity. It already played a role in driving away talented folks such as Rube, if I'm not mistaken. Whenever I bring up discussion about the 405th and 501st comparisons to costuming folks, I'd say a good 3/4th of them have a complaint about the 501st's recasting stance. While that isn't to say all 501st are recasters, it is certainly a subject that has tainted their reputation. I haven't seen a huge issue of it within the community (most recasting is from 3rd parties it seems), it's just something to keep in mind as far as the direction of the community.
Creativity seems to be the biggest thing that Bungie and 343i get a kick out of when they see the suits. Chatting with some of the waypoint guys, I'll always remember them saying "Don't do anything that makes it so creating the armor isn't fun. If it isn't fun, then it isn't worth doing.". So, while we may never have been headed in that direction to begin with, I just want to say that it would be good to never adopt super strict accuracy standards, such as what exists in prerequisites to join 501st units. Sorry about the number of 501st comparisons, but they are one of the staples of pop culture costuming. While some people view us as not having standards, I think we're definitely on to something by allowing anyone in and doing our best to teach and encourage them. Heck, some of the coolest stuff here has been by new folks (such as Rube when he first joined)
I'm trying to remember where I read this, and it might actually have been here, but I don't see it so I'll restate it just in case: WIP threads. I believe they should comply to similar thread title organizations as the classifieds so they are easy to ID and spot. Or a better solution might be to have a subforum dedicated entirely to WIP. They could possibly be split up into major subgroups so files could be easy to find and people working on similar projects could better find each other, for example:
*Creation Discussion
The downside is that might result in too many subgroups, but right now I think organization would be more helpful. People that are interested in getting started on a specific project could find it easy to jump right into it. The Molded/Pep armor subforums and general tutorials could provide information that apply to any sort of suit (such as painting, basic construction tips, etc.). Each major group could also have a locked, stickied thread that just highlights all completed costumes with basic information, while the member spotlight delves more in depth into interviews, build information, etc.
Okay, getting tired so I'll just touch on one more thing. Yeah...should definitely get to sleep. Starting to have trouble thinking straight. When things do get reorganized, I'd definitely love to talk about setting up a section for the California/Pacific group I'm trying to keep organized. Facebook pages are great for keeping people updated, but the FB discussion board sucks.
And I think tutorials definitely benefit from pictures and are better off having the actual tutorial itself be fairly static just for simplicity, cleanliness, and ease of reading. A feedback section could be kept separate, and updated to the tutorial notes elsewhere by staff members only to avoid crazy wiki changes or super long threads where it's no longer possible to glean the most useful info.
Hopefully I didn't ramble too much!
I think a lot of the updates and such are on the backburner for a bit as people prep for D*Con and deal with personal things...like getting really fancy weddings with crazy fireworks and trips to Disneyworld. Dangit, I want to ride the teacups. And Star Tours. Did you know it's getting a major overhaul? But I digress.
I've been working on trying to get the regional stuff for California/Pacific coast more organized. I definitely think our strong showing at Comic Con was a good indicator of things to come.
I believe we have to have a very firm stance on recasting, as it is something that kills creativity. It already played a role in driving away talented folks such as Rube, if I'm not mistaken. Whenever I bring up discussion about the 405th and 501st comparisons to costuming folks, I'd say a good 3/4th of them have a complaint about the 501st's recasting stance. While that isn't to say all 501st are recasters, it is certainly a subject that has tainted their reputation. I haven't seen a huge issue of it within the community (most recasting is from 3rd parties it seems), it's just something to keep in mind as far as the direction of the community.
Creativity seems to be the biggest thing that Bungie and 343i get a kick out of when they see the suits. Chatting with some of the waypoint guys, I'll always remember them saying "Don't do anything that makes it so creating the armor isn't fun. If it isn't fun, then it isn't worth doing.". So, while we may never have been headed in that direction to begin with, I just want to say that it would be good to never adopt super strict accuracy standards, such as what exists in prerequisites to join 501st units. Sorry about the number of 501st comparisons, but they are one of the staples of pop culture costuming. While some people view us as not having standards, I think we're definitely on to something by allowing anyone in and doing our best to teach and encourage them. Heck, some of the coolest stuff here has been by new folks (such as Rube when he first joined)
I'm trying to remember where I read this, and it might actually have been here, but I don't see it so I'll restate it just in case: WIP threads. I believe they should comply to similar thread title organizations as the classifieds so they are easy to ID and spot. Or a better solution might be to have a subforum dedicated entirely to WIP. They could possibly be split up into major subgroups so files could be easy to find and people working on similar projects could better find each other, for example:
*Creation Discussion
*General Tutorials
*3d Modeling
*Molded Armor
*Pepakura Armor
*Project Threads
*3d Modeling
*Molded Armor
*Pepakura Armor
*Project Threads
*Marines/UNSC Personnel
*Tutorial/Pep File Database
*Works in Progress
*ODSTs*Works in Progress
*Tutorial/Pep File Database
*Works in Progress
*Spartans (Halo 1-3)*Works in Progress
*Tutorial/Pep File Database
*Works in Progress
*Spartans (Reach)*Works in Progress
*Tutorial/Pep File Database
*Works in Progress
*Covenant, Flood, AIs, and Beyond*Works in Progress
*Tutorial/Pep File Database
*Works in Progress
*Weapons and Props*Works in Progress
*Tutorial/Pep File Database
*Works in Progress
*Team Builds*Works in Progress
The downside is that might result in too many subgroups, but right now I think organization would be more helpful. People that are interested in getting started on a specific project could find it easy to jump right into it. The Molded/Pep armor subforums and general tutorials could provide information that apply to any sort of suit (such as painting, basic construction tips, etc.). Each major group could also have a locked, stickied thread that just highlights all completed costumes with basic information, while the member spotlight delves more in depth into interviews, build information, etc.
Okay, getting tired so I'll just touch on one more thing. Yeah...should definitely get to sleep. Starting to have trouble thinking straight. When things do get reorganized, I'd definitely love to talk about setting up a section for the California/Pacific group I'm trying to keep organized. Facebook pages are great for keeping people updated, but the FB discussion board sucks.
And I think tutorials definitely benefit from pictures and are better off having the actual tutorial itself be fairly static just for simplicity, cleanliness, and ease of reading. A feedback section could be kept separate, and updated to the tutorial notes elsewhere by staff members only to avoid crazy wiki changes or super long threads where it's no longer possible to glean the most useful info.
Hopefully I didn't ramble too much!
HeavyGunner
Well-Known Member
I like all of your points dude. They're very well thought out.
Technicallly I'm not busy on the 1st of August, but my innability to use skype will prevent me from attending the meeting. I'll be sure to do a write up of things I'd like to discuss and present it to a member to bring up on my behalf. If that's ok of course. Would anyone be willing to bring up my points at this next meeting?
Xtreme TACTICS 101
Well-Known Member
As I said before, anybody who has some points that they would like to have discussed in the meeting, but can not make it, can E-mail me with their points at xtremetactics@hotmail.com. I'll bring your points up, and be sure to mention your name to give credit where it is due.
The meeting is still on, and I look forward to seeing you all there!
The meeting is still on, and I look forward to seeing you all there!
Xtreme, does Skype have the ability to have people in a chat along side people in video conference? IF not I think TinyChat might be nice to use since it is free, web based and incorporates both. I think ooVoo, Messenger and AIM allow both but I am not really sure about skype. This wouldn't exclude people if they don't have webcams.
Are you going to capture the issues and comments from this thread or should I send my thoughts to you?
Are you going to capture the issues and comments from this thread or should I send my thoughts to you?
The video conferencing won't work as not everyone's connection can handle talking to more than one person at a time with it. We(mod/staff) tried it before when we did the one and only "Weekly" podcast.
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