Yet Another 405Th Company Discussion

[Spartan137]

Blathering stuff -- Introduction

Ok, so maybe it was the jarring difference between Gencon '08 and Gencon '09. '08 was fun for me, but I was the only guy there representing the 405th. Kinda lame. No banners, cards, anything. '09, however, had a bunch of people go. We had the banner, pamphlets, Cortana, and an H2 era ODST. What I'm trying to get at is the awesome-ness of an online community getting together in meatspace, and having a ton of fun.



As it currently stands, the easiest way to find members near you is to make a thread. Rather crude, in my opinion, but it does get the job done. But it brings to light a huge flaw in our strategy. One of the 405th's many goals is to have fun with friends you've made on the board in real life at conventions, releases, etc. But we can't organize such events that are more local. Sure, every year Dragon Con rolls around, we start 5 separate threads, each detailing different elements of the 405th rules regarding the convention, how to get there, where to stay, etc.



Now, that's great for a convention of that size. But for smaller conventions, like Gencon or Wizardcon, there's very little (if any) 405th coordination (Gencon '09 was different this year, but still wasn't a massive undertaking).



Anyway, there are now about 10,500 members in the 405th Infantry division. The 501st only has about 7,000 (although keep in mind, they have age restrictions and quality standards). What does this mean? It means that we have surpassed the 501st in membership. This doesn't mean that we're better, it doesn't mean that we're cooler, all it means is that we have a very large and dynamic community, contributing thousands of ideas and all assisting people get they're armor forged and ready to go. The 501st, you have to figure everything out for yourself, or make use of tutorials you can find online. But you still can't get any real, human assistance for all of your problems.



Look around at some of our top members, Adam and Spase, Rube and Lee, Ithica and NewSpartanCreator. That's 6 people, but they work in pairs, each working with the other to create some incredible props. You also have the larger groups, like Soaring Hammer, which create some really cool stuff, and centralize production and distribution. Each of those groups run well together because of they're interactions in the real world, not because they all met online and decided to work together.





Actual topic -- Company concept

Now, this has been thrown around before, and it's probably just going to get shot down again, but I still think it needs to be discussed. The 405th, in my opinion, needs to be sub-divided by region to flourish in a way that can rival the 501st in terms of local operations and events.



This is the way I see it, if we want to go about sub-dividing properly.



Each region with a high enough 405th population density should be forged into a group called a Company, and issued with a Phonetic Alphabet character, IE Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta. These should be assigned in order of Company commission.



Upon creation of the Company, members should partake in a democratic election to appoint a commanding officer (Captain) and a second in command (1st Lieutenant). A logistics officer should also be appointed, who will be in charge of keeping track of real world information, such as the number of personnel in the Company, each individuals address, phone, email, etc, and be in charge of contacting members with Company wide emails.



For example, let's say that the Texas Company is the first Company created. Information will read like this:



(Purely theoretical)

Alpha Company

Capt. Adam

1st. Lt. Spase

ONI Officer Ithica



Aside from those three obviously already being mods and staff members, the three who are in charge of the Company do not possess any real standing over regular members. They should be the moderators of the Company, in charge of keeping the group clean, and organizing the actual events.



Now, I'm not going to say that groups like Soaring Hammer cannot exist because of the sub-division. I personally think that they are a wonderful idea, and I myself am currently part of an international group with a similar objective.





Forum Information -- Organization and Integration

To accommodate the expansion of the 405th Infantry Division into a multi-grouped organization, a 4th board category should be created in the 405th Infantry Division sub-tab, labeled Companies. From there, each Company will receive their own board, hosted by the 405th, and will allow local communications, event planning, etc.



Something like this:



Armor, Uniform, and Prop Making

-Elite Showcase

-Noob Forum

-Creation Discussion

- -Molded Armor Discussion

- -Pepakura and Cardboard Armor

- -Weapons and Props

- -Undersuit and Soft Armor

-Armor Related Videos



General Talk

-General Discussion

-Halo Universe

-Classifieds



405th Infantry Division

-405th News Forum

-405th Companies

- -Alpha Company

- -Bravo Company

- -Charlie Company

- -(etc)

-405th Discussion



The United Kingdom category has been removed, as it would be issued it's own Company.



What do you think? I know this is a touchy subject, but progress will never be made if it is not discussed. I am sure the mods will keep a close eye on this thread, or flat out lock it to prevent a flame war. That is completly fine.

 

[DreadMullet]

well you have a pretty well thought out plan there... but im sorry but im going to shoot it down.

Look around at some of our top members, Adam and Spase, Rube and Lee, Ithica and NewSpartanCreator. That's 6 people, but they work in pairs, each working with the other to create some incredible props. You also have the larger groups, like Soaring Hammer, which create some really cool stuff, and centralize production and distribution. Each of those groups run well together because of they're interactions in the real world, not because they all met online and decided to work together.

this one point right here, i think that this cripples and discourages members. This mentality of "we have to meet in person to work together..." this is outrageous. Many members here (and i am one) have worked on stuff with members they havent met... this group of people you speak of, without ever meeting in person could still of done the props and rose to the greatness that they have... each member in a group needs to have a special skill, and its up to you to find a group of people with the same skill level, that you can trust and enjoy working with. This doesnt mean you need to meet in real life and share a beer. with the power of the internet i could work on project with someone in Australia, and we could put out a prop just as good (maybe better) than what Ship does during one of their get togethers.



the 501st is broken up into sections for a very good reason... now you say we have more members than they do. I say for every 200 troopers they have we might have 1 spartan... now in a war thats all you need, but for a costuming community we are far behind them.



as the size of our community sits now, it just wouldnt work out to great to break off into sections... now when the time is right and we have grown much larger than we are now, the Staff here at the 405th will most likely decide to go this route, but until then all we can do is make friends and pay for the shipping fees so we can work with distant members.



edit: i forgot about the conventions...



As far as conventions go, just create a thread spread the word... Maybe make a banner to put in you Sig. there are ways to spread the word, and organize.

 

[CommanderFluffy]

now im in no way in any position to say much on this subject dealing with the silimaritys proposed here on the 405th type conversion to a 501st site design but i dont think that this will fly.



resons...

1. each garroson, outpost, detachment, each has its own website to contend with the main website.

2. yes i understand where your comming from with this but also everything in the 501st is all the same. or vacumme formed or bought. not much of tutorials or creaton needed.

3. there isnt enough people on this forum alone that have full suits of armor... and there isnt enough people in the same area's that have armor to wear. as for the 501st they buy all the same stuff and add some paint... its all the same and cheap.

4. if their is a quality of armor difference in a big thing like that if we are public (parades and stuff) alot of people will really look at some suits and go what is with that suit and why doesnt that look as cool as that..



i see where your comming from with this. i know we have a huge amount of members and such but have you possibly taken into consideration that alot of these members are teens. dont get me wrong some of them are awesome and some are one or two time posters and never finish or start a completed armor set. and their isnt alot of people in the same area's or have the money for anything. conventions are where we meet but not many can even show up bacause of all these limitations.





now im sure in time when we have enough armor and enough people with full sets we will get to this sort of spliiting up but probably not untill. that time. it could take another few years by my guess.. unless we start to mass produce. but their is an issue with that because of microsoft. and lucas arts gave the 501st permission to mass produce the suits. we dont have that leasure yet or if ever that will happen.



i have ran out of things to say.. im not exactly shooting this idea down. it is in a idea bucket for the future for sure but it isnt possible at this time. and again i have no weight on this matter adam or a mod will gove you more information on if or when this idea will ever be implemented.

 

[Spartan137]

this one point right here, i think that this cripples and discourages members. This mentality of "we have to meet in person to work together..." this is outrageous. Many members here (and i am one) have worked on stuff with members they havent met... this group of people you speak of, without ever meeting in person could still of done the props and rose to the greatness that they have... each member in a group needs to have a special skill, and its up to you to find a group of people with the same skill level, that you can trust and enjoy working with. This doesnt mean you need to meet in real life and share a beer. with the power of the internet i could work on project with someone in Australia, and we could put out a prop just as good (maybe better) than what Ship does during one of their get togethers.

That's a good point, and I see where you're coming from. I am in no way saying that you 'need' to work together to make fantastic armor. Look at BlueRealm, he forged that entire set by himself, and it's probably one of if not the best suits on the 405th.



However, many people actually work better in groups then alone. Look at any classroom environment or project, and you'll see a split of people who work better in groups and people who work best alone. Working alone is pretty much accounted for on the 405th, as most of the tutorials are meant for a single person. But it's still rather difficult for people to get together for group work.



On top of that, there's a degree of fun that comes with working with other people. One of the coolest things you can do, in my opinion.

the 501st is broken up into sections for a very good reason... now you say we have more members than they do. I say for every 200 troopers they have we might have 1 spartan... now in a war thats all you need, but for a costuming community we are far behind them.



as the size of our community sits now, it just wouldnt work out to great to break off into sections... now when the time is right and we have grown much larger than we are now, the Staff here at the 405th will most likely decide to go this route, but until then all we can do is make friends and pay for the shipping fees so we can work with distant members.

That's true, and I forgot to mention that one fact myself. Assuming we've got 200 troops for every Spartan, that also means we've got maybe 1 Elite for every 1,000 members. That means we've got roughly... 50 Spartan suits across the entire board. That's probably a bit inaccurate, but it's close. Of course, you also have to factor in all the Marines and ODSTs, which gives us MAYBE 25 members.



There is one counter I have for this argument.



The 405th doesn't have the same standards that the 501st has for a reason. It's because the 405th is much more community friendly, and allows everyone who wishes to join. Sure, a large number of them are either spam-bots or 1-posters, but each of those 190+ troops for every costumed member, what about them? Sure, they might not have armor, but we're still a community, and they need to be factored in as well.

now im in no way in any position to say much on this subject dealing with the silimaritys proposed here on the 405th type conversion to a 501st site design but i dont think that this will fly.



resons...

1. each garroson, outpost, detachment, each has its own website to contend with the main website.

In the case of the 501st, you're right, that is the case. That's why I suggested that we put a new listing in the 405th Infantry Division category. The Companies would be alot less individualized if we put the separate Companies discussion threads on the 405th forum.

now im sure in time when we have enough armor and enough people with full sets we will get to this sort of spliiting up but probably not untill. that time. it could take another few years by my guess.. unless we start to mass produce. but their is an issue with that because of microsoft. and lucas arts gave the 501st permission to mass produce the suits. we dont have that leasure yet or if ever that will happen.

Well, splitting up into Companies doesn't actually require the permission of Microsoft. Lucas Arts only lets the 501st sell Stormtrooper and other Empire suits in bulk, rather then just as commissions and limited runs like we have.

 

[LastSpartan]

I agree at 100% with you.



Since mods seems to busy to work out a charter, I think someone needs to step in and do something. Thanks S137, hopefully, they'll read it and maybe accept it.



I love the thing with the companies, but we need a more complex system than just Alpha since, there are more than 26 regions. Except if a region is a country.



We would need to determine how many members = region.



Because for exemple, we are like 40 in Canada while there are about 40 members just in Texas....

 

[Cadet]

Anyway, there are now about 10,500 members in the 405th Infantry division. The 501st only has about 7,000 (although keep in mind, they have age restrictions and quality standards). What does this mean? It means that we have surpassed the 501st in membership. This doesn't mean that we're better, it doesn't mean that we're cooler, all it means is that we have a very large and dynamic community, contributing thousands of ideas and all assisting people get they're armor forged and ready to go. The 501st, you have to figure everything out for yourself, or make use of tutorials you can find online. But you still can't get any real, human assistance for all of your problems.

There is a huge and drastic difference between forum members and actual members of an organizations. So there 10,500 registered accounts on the forum, but how many of those are active and posting, and how many of those are actually working on making armor, and how many have finished suits? Also, no, in the 501st you don't have to "figure everything out for yourself." That is the point of both the detachment sites and forums, and your local garrison sites and forums. People in the 501st are always more than willing to share their time and experience to help you with your costumes once you have politely and properly introduced yourself to your local garrison.



And once again, I also see lots of inaccurate information being thrown out about the 501st, if you guys have any questions about the 501st, I would be happy to answer them, and no we don't all "buy all the same stuff and add some paint," by the way.

 

[LastSpartan]

In my opinion, it needs to start somewhere.



If we just wait, people will get discourage and leave.

 

[Spartan137]

There is a huge and drastic difference between forum members and actual members of an organizations. So there 10,500 registered accounts on the forum, but how many of those are active and posting, and how many of those are actually working on making armor, and how many have finished suits? Also, no, in the 501st you don't have to "figure everything out for yourself." That is the point of both the detachment sites and forums, and your local garrison sites and forums. People in the 501st are always more than willing to share their time and experience to help you with your costumes once you have politely and properly introduced yourself to your local garrison.



And once again, I also see lots of inaccurate information being thrown out about the 501st, if you guys have any questions about the 501st, I would be happy to answer them, and no we don't all "buy all the same stuff and add some paint," by the way.

I'm running mostly off of what I've learned from a few guys in the Bloodfin garrison. Inaccurate information is probably rampant. Apologies.



However, from what I've seen (from both referenced sites and my own hunts), the 405th definitely has a much more organized tutorial system, seeing mainly as the 405th has all of our tutorials on the same website. Yes, the 501st has tutorials, but they each link to a separate website.



If you want assistance (like you said) you've got to join a local detachment's forum. Well, that's pretty much the exact same as what we do. Other people interested in getting/making the armor are also joining. You've got to share the attention with the other newbies. Near as I can tell, there's not much difference. And like Adam and Spase, the people who have actually finished their armor, they'll offer assistance that isn't listed in a tutorial, but most of the time you'll get referenced to the tuts.

 

[Dizzerak]

I was under the impression that we weren't doing this was because we (405th) aren't an official fan club, or something like that.

 

[Adulese]

While I respect the above opinions and views regarding this matter, I disagree. I believe that Spartan 137 has a very valid point in regards to localized divisions of the 405th. I think that for our group to be taken as a fully recognized entity (even though it seems as it already is for those in the Halo community), we need to be able to control the next step after finishing your armor. Now, after I finished my armor I looked around the forums and saw that the Division can use some help in regards to local events. I believe that if we had this ideal or something similar in place, it would allow for a more individualized/localized social experience post-build. Actually, if you look at the 405th Discussion board, we are doing this right now, though in a non-unified manner. I'm for this idea on sub-dividing the Division's event co-ordinations, both pre and post build and think that it will only strengthen and add more value to the 405th experience.



- Adulese

 

[rvb18]

are we forgetting we had a h2 and h3 odst i just got there 5 minutes too late (least thats what loess said)but i did rep the 405th all day at the exhibit hall

 

[Spartan137]

While I respect the above opinions and views regarding this matter, I disagree. I believe that Spartan 137 has a very valid point in regards to localized divisions of the 405th. I think that for our group to be taken as a fully recognized entity (even though it seems as it already is for those in the Halo community), we need to be able to control the next step after finishing your armor. Now, after I finished my armor I looked around the forums and saw that the Division can use some help in regards to local events. I believe that if we had this ideal or something similar in place, it would allow for a more individualized/localized social experience post-build. Actually, if you look at the 405th Discussion board, we are doing this right now, though in a non-unified manner. I'm for this idea on sub-dividing the Division's event co-ordinations, both pre and post build and think that it will only strengthen and add more value to the 405th experience.



- Adulese

Adulese is correct, this process is already happening, albeit slowly and in an unorganized fashion. And so far, people have been coming together and creating small, unofficial groups. It's a good thing that people are localizing and coming together, but it's something that, as a whole, is unhealthy to the 405th Infantry Division. As long as an unofficial group marks itself as a 405th group, it goes against the grain of the 405th Charter, which requires a unified 405th.



This is partially why the 405th needs sub-groups. It allows the members of the 405th to expand, get to know people, and interact they way the members desire, and it shields the 405th from charter problems.



@RvB

Sorry, dude. I was there only on Saturday, so I forgot you were there.

 

[rvb18]

Adulese is correct, this process is already happening, albeit slowly and in an unorganized fashion. And so far, people have been coming together and creating small, unofficial groups. It's a good thing that people are localizing and coming together, but it's something that, as a whole, is unhealthy to the 405th Infantry Division. As long as an unofficial group marks itself as a 405th group, it goes against the grain of the 405th Charter, which requires a unified 405th.



This is partially why the 405th needs sub-groups. It allows the members of the 405th to expand, get to know people, and interact they way the members desire, and it shields the 405th from charter problems.



@RvB

Sorry, dude. I was there only on Saturday, so I forgot you were there.

no biggy. BTW this sounds like my group idea but on an international level

 

[rube]

Anyway, there are now about 10,500 members in the 405th Infantry division. The 501st only has about 7,000

I think your membership numbers are a tad optimistic. If you search the membership listings for people who have more than 30 posts and who have posted since January 1, 2008 you'll get about 740 members who could be considered "active". Nothing to sneeze at but about 1/10th the size of the 501st.

 

[Spartan137]

no biggy. BTW this sounds like my group idea but on an international level

Pretty much. Think of it as a Division wide sub-division. Beat the snot out of not know who the heck lives nearby.

 

[LeeKegan]

I personally don't think we need divisions, but there is nothing wrong with planning and having get togethers in local areas. There are plenty of members in the Ohio valley area that equals the size of Texas.

 

[CommanderFluffy]

ok yes i see the errors of my ways cadet. but in a way from what i see yes. but of course i could always be wrong and just doing a simple generalization. anywho... the local things are great ideas but the divisions thing still illudes me a bit. i understand where everyone is likeing this but you must also take into consideration. not everyone from a garroson or company as what people are saying is good. but also the unorganized and unoffical get togethers are really good! some people may say it isnt good but it is. some work some videos and tutorials come out of it. like the soaring hammer stuff. its awesome. sure its kinda a subdivision but in a way it isnt. the 405th simply isnt big enough or have enough full suits/active members to setup something like this.



as said before this idea is in consideration im sure already... and as i see the 405th is that theres a uk and general 405th(covers everwhere north america i assume) but as for other people in different countries we simply arent enough in active population or greological closeness to create any sort of garrosion / company system as of yet.



but once their will be (far future is predicted) some people may not even update their appointed forums.. etc ez ezine is empty no one really reads their anymore. and when there are company sections i wanna be in bad company (from canada)

 

[kensai111]

Focusing on the OP here, divisions may be incorporated in the charter as for now the charter is incomplete, there was discussions of global divisions but for now there aren't enough members to grant it. As for ranks, there will not be any ranks in the 405th. Any ideas of it should be considered dead in the water, from my understanding the last time this topic came up it was voted on and is a definite no and all topics bringing up the discussion were closed. The charter will be finished whenever the staff finishes it, they have real lives, children, girlfriends/boyfriends and wives/husbands and many other projects on their plate. Also, as a reminder, NO ONE is in the 405th. We are all forum members on the 405th, for all intents and purposes we are like the Men in Black, we do not exist.



However, this does not stop anyone from gathering together and building cool stuff, infact we encourage that. You shouldn't feel helpless, there are plenty of things to do to improve the overall quality of the site and get this train moving forward.



1. Make quality armor, props, and help around the community both local and online. (Quality props attract the eyes of Bungie, Halo celebrities, and new members and work towards more fully suited members)

2. Consult with the 405th Source about donating time to do professional video tutorials, create artwork, write articles, and help maintain a professional, friendly and positive face for the 405th (VERY IMPORTANT! Provides reputation, new members, attracts important eyes like Bungie and Halo celebrities which is important if we want their approval to be an official group)

3. Attend conventions, public events and charities promoting the 405th name (Provides us with good reputation and more members)



So while it may not feel like it, each day is a step forward. There are things you can do to help make it go a little faster though



Cheers,

Kensai

 

[Yodajammies]

LastSpartan, your user picture is fantastic. Where can I find a high res copy of that?

 

[Adulese]

^ You really should just post something like that. Though I agree with that comment.



On topic, I understand where you are coming from Kensia, though I must add to the point that Spartan137 is trying to make. If we are to strengthen our status and community, I think it is inevitable that we will form localized groups. I think, that of all the ideas I have read regarding this, Spartan137's is at the top of the list. I mean, localized divisions are already in place, but unofficial and many times unorginized. I think that just this small little idea could help out the community drastically.



- Adulese