Are we official?

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Darth-Malevelus said:
One note too,...
In the 501st there can only be one face character at a time on the floor say at a con, or in public in the same place, at the same time.

So I wonder would bungie have an issue with 2 or 3 spartans AKA masterchief, walking around the same place at the same time?

Since he is the face character of that game?

The standard infantry might be recognized by an uber fan if it were done very well. But mightbe confused with ,... say a starship troopers costume. Un less of course he washanging witht he cheif. LOL

I agree we need to worry about getting completed costumes, and of decent quality, game accurateness, not rediculous, just obviously not home made quality.

AND we need to get adam's input here, on what He want to do, and where he'd like to go with this.

Theres alot to do before we can worry ourselves with being an actuall costuming group,

First of all we need good high quality , er professional grade costumes, to be taken seriously.

So let start with the baby steps first. One foot in frontof the other, one step at a time.

The thing is its easier for the 501st to get professional looking costumes then us and at a much lower cost as well. So thats a reason for such a low rate of costumes on this site. Second your right we need to do something big before we ask bungie to support us to show them we mean buissness and that we arent a failure. Also the age is a big part as well, seeing that at least 50% or probabaly more of this site is under 18 maybe even 16. I say 14+ or 16+. I am trying to get a design on a t shirt for the 405th to show as a proposition and then show adam or sean or one of the admins to see if they like it and if i can sell them. We all need to do our part, and "finish the fight!" haha.
 
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No there would be 60-70 users if it was 18+ if it was 16+ it would be more like 100-150 if 14+ it would be a lot but we wouldnt get taken seriosuly. Im trying not to be mean about it but its true. And im pretty sure 14 year olds wont have professional grade armor... you know.
 
SpartanForever said:
No there would be 60-70 users if it was 18+ if it was 16+ it would be more like 100-150 if 14+ it would be a lot but we wouldnt get taken seriosuly. Im trying not to be mean about it but its true. And im pretty sure 14 year olds wont have professional grade armor... you know.
You saying 14 year olds cant have good armor? Well, I am 15...
 
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Keegan said:
You saying 14 year olds cant have good armor? Well, I am 15...

Im saying its not likely that someone who is 14 will have 2k to buy some of there own professional grade armor or the resources and skill to make there own molded suits. And i dont know about yours if its molded then i stand corrected or if its pep and then fiberglassed to look molded then i also stand corrected.
 
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Its still in process but it shall not looklike pepakura in the end. But still, be corrected.
 
SpartanForever said:
Im saying its not likely that someone who is 14 will have 2k to buy some of there own professional grade armor or the resources and skill to make there own molded suits. And i dont know about yours if its molded then i stand corrected or if its pep and then fiberglassed to look molded then i also stand corrected.

So they can make Soft Costumes like Pillar of Autumn crew.
Rob
 
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True, there has been no one yet that has created a Naval uniform that I have seen, they would be more in the low hundred dollar range. I would love to see more Halo extended universe costuming.

But whether someone has the cash flow to participate is not really the dividing issue regarding age restrictions, its the legal issues.


Age of Minority (Minor): In the United States as of 1995, a minor is legally defined as a person under eighteen. However, not all minors are considered "juveniles" in terms of criminal responsibility.

Age of Majority (Adult): The age at which a person, formerly a minor or an infant, is recognized by law to be an adult, capable of managing his or her own affairs and responsible for any legal obligations created by his or her actions.

The Age of Majority in the U.S. is 18
Exception: in Alabama, Delaware, Nebraska, and Wyoming which is 19, and in Michigan it is 21.


If the 405th went official, then there would be legal issues regarding the participation of minors in the organization. Not to say that a minor could not own a set of Spartan Series armor or a Halo expanded universe related costume, and thats also not to say that they could not attend events either. All participation would be in an unofficial capacity and not representative of the named organization.

Its just that the 405th could not legally claim responsibility for any minor that attends an event.

On that same side of the coin, it is not ethical to claim membership to an organization that legally does not recognize you as a member, as all "card holding" members are representatives of the organization and their associated actions reflect on the organization as a whole.

That said, there is the looming fact that the 405th.com is only a costuming forum built around Spartan Series armor, the Halo extended universe, and its associated characters, items and related discussion. The organization that everyone keeps referring to is in essentially just a web page in the sole control of the person that pays to keep this forum active, its not free after all.

But ultimately I just like to beat things into the ground and for the sake of reading my own opinions in a non-official capacity over and over again lol... in the words of Johnny, "Flame ON!".
 
I agree ^^.

Not to mention that some of the very same minors who constantly argue that they should be included in the 405th are some of the first ones to say,

'I'd love to go to that show, but my parents wouldn't let me travel/ attend'

when people bring up shows the 405th might make appearances at.



.....but then again, this entire thread is nothing but speculation, conjecture and arguments...
and may have little or nothing to do with any real and final rules set in place by the leadership.
 
yeah if I asked my parents if they could take me to a scifi convention with my *cough* not done *cough* armor, they would start laughing and saying "ARE YOU CRAZY!?"

and i do like that 16+ idea, not so much the 18+ idea, since im 16 and very capable of making armor like you adults.

I know for a fact that i can do pep better than anyone i know, probably becuase im the only one who knows what pep is :p
 
Blegh, all threads in this section seem to devolve to this point.

minors: us too!
people with poor armor: us too!
people with rich armor: meh.

And in the end, none of it matters, until someone starts leading- which I don't see a lot of around here.

I'm none of the above- I haven't really done too much armormachen, yet, but I think I'd like to.
Eventually, seeing the 405th become like a smaller version of the 501st would be a great thing.
That would mean excluding minors(unless chaperoned by their parents, and unofficial) and enforcing quality standards for entry.. which the people above don't seem to want to accept or enforce.
 
don't instantly assume (because when you assume yo make and a$$ out of "u" and me, lol) that 14 year olds can't make good armor, some of us have the talent and some of us have a job to pay for, say a $300 suit of armor. i have a job, alot of free time, and i work pretty well with my hands (if you don't believe me then check out my pep stuff).

i say we have a +14 or +15 age

as for the parading or conventions i think we might have a little problem, none of our armor looks alike at all (unless you buy armor from someone). the 501st has alot of armor but it all looks VERY similar. and wouldn't we all need to have the same color of armor if we were gonna call our selves a "troop" or "squad"?

thats my take on this.
 
paradoxdj said:
don't instantly assume that 14 year olds can't make good armor, some of us have the talent and some of us have a job to pay for, say a $300 suit of armor. i have a job, alot of free time, and i work pretty well with my hands.

Such an assumption was not made(by me). A & B being problems does not equal A+B is a problem.

paradoxdj said:
i say we have a +14 or +15 age limit

Read more:

Spase said:
But whether someone has the cash flow to participate is not really the dividing issue regarding age restrictions, its the legal issues.


Age of Minority (Minor): In the United States as of 1995, a minor is legally defined as a person under eighteen. However, not all minors are considered "juveniles" in terms of criminal responsibility.

Age of Majority (Adult): The age at which a person, formerly a minor or an infant, is recognized by law to be an adult, capable of managing his or her own affairs and responsible for any legal obligations created by his or her actions.

The Age of Majority in the U.S. is 18
Exception: in Alabama, Delaware, Nebraska, and Wyoming which is 19, and in Michigan it is 21.


If the 405th went official, then there would be legal issues regarding the participation of minors in the organization. Not to say that a minor could not own a set of Spartan Series armor or a Halo expanded universe related costume, and thats also not to say that they could not attend events either. All participation would be in an unofficial capacity and not representative of the named organization.

Its just that the 405th could not legally claim responsibility for any minor that attends an event.
 
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In order to become official, we need a more firmly organized unit; We need divisions, a command structure. In short, we need the charter written up and finalized.

We need forums that divide things into regions. I propose that rather than state-by-state, we need something like North South East West, due to our initial membership size limitations. Later, as we grow, we can add divisions by states as we become overrun with posts.

We need a forum for simply discussing business. This IS a business, and will actually require a legal identity if we intend on doing any fund-raisers that involve us taking money, even if we are merely going to redistribute it. We also need it for raffles, giveaways, etc, and definately need it for any situation where we collect membership fees/dues of any kind for the club.

We need a charter, and back when this site started, I obtained official permission from the 501st to use theirs as a starting point to adapt to our own needs. I started adjusting it and passed it along to Adam quite some time ago. I'm currently unaware of the status on this because I've been gone from here for quite awhile. I propose that whatever the status is on that, we need to post it in a forum, and start taking it apart and rebuilding it in our image. (maybe it's here somewhere and I haven't seen it yet?)

The charter would include things like ranks, etc, and command postings that will later become elected positions. The duties of the officers and general membership will become outlined, and we can start exploring where we take it from there. Personally, I think the ranks should match the Halo ranks, because that makes the most sense. Halopedia also has a set of ranks that will be useful to work from.

As we need to, we can change from the original charter, through votes and stuff, and get a more final version, but we need to start with one and start taking this more seriously. I suggest that each section of the charter get it's own sub-forum, so ideas can be discussed and bounced around.. with strict attention to staying on-topic wherever you're posting, and mods who can remove off-topic posts as they appear.

There are 405th events on the horizon that are beginning to move closer. These events will involve anyone who can attend, one of which you'll be getting more info on in the coming months.. As a hint, think about Atlanta in September, finish your armor, and set-up your travel plans and $60, assuming you're able to make it. If you can't be there, no worries, and if you don't have a costume, we'll have to work-out some kind of generic UNSC soldier costume level that would allow many more folks to participate before their spartan armor is ready (assuming they even WANT spartan armor).

As has been mentioned elsewhere, we cannot all be masterchief, and as such, all club spartans represent generic spartans. I have a few ideas, which will need formal approval, but in-order to make ourselves "useful" to Bungie or Microsoft and not be in direct violation of coypright, we COULD base ourselves upon a secret group of UNSC, including spartans, that were lost in slipspace and have returned to Earth, in her past, which is today. Perhaps we've been on another planet for a long time, trying to figure-out how to return to Earth, and actually colonized while we were there. We're from the next generation of spartans/marines. We're here now to defend the Earth, and warn of the coming Covenant and Flood. We therefore hold no names that were used in the novels or games, which is good because that could result in legal problems both with M$ and Bungie, not to mention publishing companies, plus it avoids the potential for confusion. It also permits us to become formally recognized if Bungie or M$ decides to do so.

One of the reasons that the 501st is "legal" is because all of their armor is officially made as fan armor by the wearer. The quality of the armor is due to the fact that some parts (such as vacuum-formed plates) are sold as kits, that are purchased from "vendors". However, these kits are not fully assembled, and typically lack parts such as boots, gloves, and/or bodysuit. Therefore final assembly credit goes to the person who finishes it. The reason all of these kits are so similar is that there are realistically only 3 or 4 unique versions of stormtroopers being made, plus or minus modifications made for size adjustments, or customizations, and are vacuum-formed.

In the 405th, we face a different challenge because we are imitating armor that has never existed in physical form, and in fact, if 100% accurate, would not fit a human being at all. Various armorers/costumers have attempted to adapt the armor to what they feel is accurate, but realistically, there is no "standard" by which these suits are formed. We can't realistically do that, yet it's readily apparent that suits made by different folks will have different appearances. I say, "close enough" rather than suggest that anyone's in the wrong. As we get more set-up, perhaps we'll have better access to a more conforming style. At the moment however, our focus needs to be on "kits", to make the armor easier to afford, and to lend credibility to the fact that WE ARE WEARING FAN MADE SUITS, and that some PARTS were purchased, but all-in-all, they're ours. If we cannot make this distinction, we are not going to succeed here in making a club like this with our vendors unprotected because they make full suits of armor that infringe copyright.

I agree with the idea that Paper costumes are not going to work as an official suit, due to the limitations created by say, rain, during a parade. We can't have members running away with their armor falling apart around them. Indoors, the rain wouldn't affect it, but ideally, if you have a choice between a basic marine uniform and a paper spartan, I think the marine uniform is more impressive. However, if no other "higher grade" spartans are nearby, there's no reason why a paper spartan wouldn't be acceptable, so for functions, the paper spartans would be out of the question unless the event is indoors, and there's no other spartan costumes present. The idea is, it's better than nothing, but it cheapens the effect of the other Spartans when it's presented alongside them. It has the appearance of mocking the other costumes rather than actually being a costume itself. The other reason why I beleive it's unacceptable is that paper holds no significant value in armor. Plastic, on the other-hand is what modern protective armor is made from, riot gear and suchlike. The idea is that it's vaguely possible that it's real protective armor, paper, on the other hand is.. well... paper. If you saw a movie about Halo, even really low budget, would you accept a paper masterchief? That's perhaps a good idea of the kind of expectations we need for any "club authorized costumes."

Another reason the 501st is permitted to exist is that they have a guideline for how stormtroopers are allowed to behave. Every time the stormtrooper costumes are worn, they are acting as an unofficial representative of star wars/ lucasfilms and an official representative of the 501st. This means their behavior is important. All it takes is for one drunk stormtrooper to put a bad name on the club, and make the whole thing look bad.. Get a few of them together, claiming to be a part of the club, and that club is history. Lucas takes firm control of their characters, and want to be sure that they are always represented in a fashion that's positive for children. Bungie/M$, has a similar issue, and we have to figure-out the best way to approach this issue. It seems that they may be more lenient, considering their "official" posts pointing out homegrown fan videos that curse, but the club itself has to maintain a certain level of dignity to allow the following:
#1- we represent games that have future value, in terms of spinoffs and stuff. If we give the games a bad name, it loses value. We cost the game properties to lose value, and the club will be wiped out.
#2- We have to seem able to handle our duties for charity events if we expect to be able to earn the trust of not only the participating general public, but also the charities we hope to assist.
#3- We also need to look good to the places we hope to accomplish our charity goals and/or meeting places, etc. (the venues).

These items all become a part of the charter, so that each one of us is responsible for themselves, and we all know what we're required to do, and how we can participate in the events that will slowly, but surely begin trickling in, as soon as the garrisons have been set-up, and the garrison leaders chosen or elected. This is because it becomes their duty to start coming up with stuff that they can do on a local level. Whether it's to show-up for game releases, or to do a charity event, or whatever.

At the moment, noone seems to have any idea on how to proceed, and there's really only one way to do it.. Form a charter and follow it... the rest will fall into place from the charter and become the duties of the various garrison leaders, and troop leaders and overseen by other club leaders who will attempt to set-up things on a much larger stage.

Personally, I think we're good to go now, and we just need to get that charter going.

The charter should include areas with overseers that ensure the initial set-up stuff is getting done. For example, we need a set of rules to dictate what the costumes are allowed to be, and what the "levels" are (ie- like the basic marine dress and then more specialized branches). One person should set-up the first set of rules/descriptions, and then let a group go ahead and critique it in a special forum dedicated to that. We should put an estimated date of completion on it, and whoever's in charge could add other completion dates to it for lower goals:
For example, by this Friday, we need to determine what the lowest level of costume can be, like a basic marine, to be acceptable for club membership and attend as a club member. This is a lower goal, while the overall goal is to establish costume requirements. Each goal could have it's own sticky post until it's considered final, and then it's added to that section of the Charter.

Ok, that's enough for now.. oh.. and a big shoutout to all my old buddies on here... I've missed you guys! Looks like I might be able to come around more like I used to.
 
Deadguy said:
In order to become official, we need a more firmly organized unit; We need divisions, a command structure. In short, we need the charter written up and finalized.
I agree wholeheartedly. Some kind of unifying structure is needed, and a charter is perfect.

Deadguy said:
Perhaps we've been on another planet for a long time, trying to figure-out how to return to Earth, and actually colonized while we were there. We're from the next generation of spartans/marines. We're here now to defend the Earth, and warn of the coming Covenant and Flood. We therefore hold no names that were used in the novels or games, which is good because that could result in legal problems both with M$ and Bungie
Excellent! This leads to all sorts of interesting exchanges at events- which will be accompanied by business cards! And fliers! And new members!

Deadguy said:
For example, by this Friday, we need to determine what the lowest level of costume can be, like a basic marine, to be acceptable for club membership and attend as a club member.
Indeed, decisions need to be made.. some won't be easy. I'm probably going to piss off moderators when I say this.. but the 405th needs leadership. It's not just a forum for armorers- a decent amount of the people on that forum for armorers want it to be something greater.
 
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Wow... Deadguy... well said, dude. Very informative and thought out. That's essentially all of it in a nutshell...
 
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