JUSTINIAN 117
Well-Known Member
I'm willing to help.
Drawn away?
- Thread starter seaninja
- Start date
- Status
Walter Spase
Well-Known Member
I see all... well, give or take within 24-48 hours. Still working out issues on our end... sorry folks.
Now it is up to mods/admins to give the green light.
Just to repeat what I am proposing:
1) We initiate the "self-policing" the threads in 405th and lock-down new memberships (?)
2) We start a focus group of volunteers what are willing to help.
3) We identified the projects that need to be done in 405th. We also need to identify web-experts.
4) Each project is given to at least 2 volunteers, but no more than 4. Each team has the autonomous authority over the contents, with mods/admins input.
5) Web-experts take the contents and update 405th.
To start off, here is a list of volunteers. Instead of listing names, we should also include expertise and areas that you wish to get involved. If there are any web experts, please list skills in the expertise.
[Screen Name] [Expertise] [Areas Interested]
[CoolC] [Data management, organizational skill, presentation] [Stickies, User interface]
[Justinian 117]
[seaninja]
Just to repeat what I am proposing:
1) We initiate the "self-policing" the threads in 405th and lock-down new memberships (?)
2) We start a focus group of volunteers what are willing to help.
3) We identified the projects that need to be done in 405th. We also need to identify web-experts.
4) Each project is given to at least 2 volunteers, but no more than 4. Each team has the autonomous authority over the contents, with mods/admins input.
5) Web-experts take the contents and update 405th.
To start off, here is a list of volunteers. Instead of listing names, we should also include expertise and areas that you wish to get involved. If there are any web experts, please list skills in the expertise.
[Screen Name] [Expertise] [Areas Interested]
[CoolC] [Data management, organizational skill, presentation] [Stickies, User interface]
[Justinian 117]
[seaninja]
I still disagree with "locking down new memberships". I think that we do however, need to make a set amount of time where people can only post in the introduction thread. Noobs should not be able to post anywhere else for a week or two. That way they do research while they are waiting. "Noobs" should not be allowed to post anywhere but the "noob" section for a month or 100 posts, whichever is greater. This promotes patience, and keeps the impatient ones out of bothering veterans and members who are doing build threads.
I say this because everyone started as a noob. We just need to control the "pest" ones, not keep them from joining. We want more membership and more recognition, publicity is always good, and more people promote innovation. We aren't an elite club, but we should have rules to prevent new people from accidentally being obnoxious.
I say this because everyone started as a noob. We just need to control the "pest" ones, not keep them from joining. We want more membership and more recognition, publicity is always good, and more people promote innovation. We aren't an elite club, but we should have rules to prevent new people from accidentally being obnoxious.
JUSTINIAN 117
Well-Known Member
I could help gather info on top projects, top projects in process, and top project innovations. Some help would be great, though.
ChaoBreeder
Active Member
That's my point. I would rather have a member that has waited a couple of months to join, rather than one who couldn't wait to join and left. There have been many examples of members who couldn't join here and made their whole suit before they even posted. All the help that they need is in the threads.
Spitfire22V
Well-Known Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a system exactly like this being used currently? For the most part, it seems to work fine, except for the occasional noob that posts threads in the Noob forum saying "Well, since I can't post this anywhere else, I will post it here." *facepalm*, but bearable. Those kinds of threads luckily tend to die off quick.
Does it though? First they could PM everyone, unless they lack PM privileges until they reach Infantryman status. I would also imagine that the many would simply try to spam threads with quick one-liners like "Nice armor" just to get their post count up. I'm fairly sure I've seen a few members attempting this even in my short time here.
Personally, in the end, I don't see this problem ever really going away with what seems to be an ever growing population of young, spoiled and lazy brats that feel entitled to have everything given to them on a golden platter. (And mind you, I'm unfortunately not that far removed from that generation). You can trim the weeds, but they just keep on growing.
I'm very much entitled to the fruit of my labor. That's about it for entitlement.
I think disabling PMs is good. Currently, noobs can post anywhere as long as they didn't start the thread. I disagree with noobs having to wait for months on end to join because pep is a very season-oriented type of project. Also, we still wouldn't have great noob threads like the current "elite" build by Longshot-X. We would still be waiting for that to happen if noobs had to wait months to join.
I think temp-bans would also promote not asking simple questions. Perhaps having to take a "test" to move out of being a noob instead of a time limit or post amount? That way they could never make posts if they don't already have some of the simple answers. I just hate to be so discouraging on new members, because not all of them are bad apples, and it's a tragic case of bad apples ruining it for everyone else.
I envision:
Super-noob: unable to post anywhere else but the intro thread for one week.
Noob: No posting anywhere else but the noob forum. No posting at all anywhere else. You must have 100 posts and been here a month to take the test. No upgrading until you "pass the test". You request a test from the mod. Mod gives you the basic ten question test, if you fail, no taking the test for one week. If you pass, you get upgraded. (Someone else could be in charge of this as well, and refer said member to the mod for upgrading)
Infantryman: Normal rights and privileges. Can be downgraded for easy questions or being too bothersome.
I think disabling PMs is good. Currently, noobs can post anywhere as long as they didn't start the thread. I disagree with noobs having to wait for months on end to join because pep is a very season-oriented type of project. Also, we still wouldn't have great noob threads like the current "elite" build by Longshot-X. We would still be waiting for that to happen if noobs had to wait months to join.
I think temp-bans would also promote not asking simple questions. Perhaps having to take a "test" to move out of being a noob instead of a time limit or post amount? That way they could never make posts if they don't already have some of the simple answers. I just hate to be so discouraging on new members, because not all of them are bad apples, and it's a tragic case of bad apples ruining it for everyone else.
I envision:
Super-noob: unable to post anywhere else but the intro thread for one week.
Noob: No posting anywhere else but the noob forum. No posting at all anywhere else. You must have 100 posts and been here a month to take the test. No upgrading until you "pass the test". You request a test from the mod. Mod gives you the basic ten question test, if you fail, no taking the test for one week. If you pass, you get upgraded. (Someone else could be in charge of this as well, and refer said member to the mod for upgrading)
Infantryman: Normal rights and privileges. Can be downgraded for easy questions or being too bothersome.
Spitfire22V
Well-Known Member
I hope you didn't take what I said about entitlement to mean I was referring to you or anyone in this thread currently. I was referring to the people who post those "wow cool armr can u build oen 4 me?" posts we all love so much.
Ah, you're right, my mistake. I don't disagree with decreasing noob posting privileges a bit more. It would hopefully force at least a few more of them to read first before posting, and also hopefully keep all the "mayhem" of noob posts in one forum completely.
Nintendude
Well-Known Member
My skills (oh boy) Javascript, HTML, C ++, PhPBB Knowledge, Moderator of 5 Forums, Owner/Admin for 3 Forums. I've done a lot of webdesign in my time.
Ive been a member here for a while now. Ive seen this "issue" get discussed off and on for a LONG time. I myself dont post much here due to a lot of the same reasons most have stated already. I have worked profesionaly doing props and costumes for the film and television industry so I am far from a hobbyist in the sense of building these things, and currently run my own bussiness making props and costumes for private commission. I deal with these materials on a daily basis and day and day out make these things till my eyes bleed resin. I have been on prop/costume forums for YEARS, and have to say that this one is unique in that its organization of information is scattered, and highly redundant. The amount of user posts "stacks" the threads in such a way that a LOT of posts get buried instantly. A lot of useful posts and info is lost becaue of the "stacking"
I also have very little interest in posting and sharing because ironicaly, here on a Halo related costume board I get the LEAST amount of response or feedback on the work I share. On other sites I can post my progress, get feedback, and adult grown up discussion about techniques, methods, experiences. I also tire of reading highly innacurate suppositions. High School boasts of "ULTIMATE" or "MOST ACCURATE" from amature home enthusiasts. The "Elite" section is kind of a slap in the face personaly. I think its highly biased on who gets put there. I would prefer my build be there so I can particiapte more with people who do things on the production levels I do. But honestly I think maybe ten people at best are even aware I have a build on here becaue my posts are immediately lost to posts about Daft Punk helmets, or builds that never get past the mental masturbation stage..."I am going to build the best Jorge EVER!" yeah right. I notice that there is less interest in threads that use traditional building methods. More interest to threads purporting to make bubble gum pet hair work instead of being able to afford some damn resin and sand paper. I bet if I said my armor was made for 5dollars and entirely out of mashed potatoes, then people would flock to the thread in the hopes that they can have a movie quality suit for the cost of bag of flour. Its the pervasive attitude that there simply must be a way to get a full suit for no money or effort that litters this place with useless threads. Other boards are not run this way. I occasionaly will post relevant progress pics when I have something done, but have little interest in sharing when the posts are ignored. I laugh when I read boasts like "no one has made an accurate undersuit yet" from someone whos undersuit post is filled with mental masturbation and no actual production. Several have made very nice undersuits, my own is well underway and has progress pics and personally rocks over the pges of masturbation talk about how someone WANTS to make a suit. But only maybe three people even know I already have molds of MY undersuit parts which I would even be willing to make copies for other members, but hey lets all flock to the masturbation thread about it that has no molds or cast pieces ready to share cause its easier to jerk off thinking about making something than actually making it.
So small wonder that the place has lost its luster? That veteran and or experienced costumers go elsewhere? Its very easy for a grown up to look at the kiddie playground and just go to grownup boards. I share Pep techniques, Sewing methods, sculpting and molding tutorials, materials vendor lists on several other costume boards, but it would be a waste here, which is a shame. I would love if someone made a Halo costume forum, becaue if it existed I would love to share my work there. For now I get a LOT more out of non Halo related boards for sharing the Halo related projects I do, alongside my regualr customer projects.
I also have very little interest in posting and sharing because ironicaly, here on a Halo related costume board I get the LEAST amount of response or feedback on the work I share. On other sites I can post my progress, get feedback, and adult grown up discussion about techniques, methods, experiences. I also tire of reading highly innacurate suppositions. High School boasts of "ULTIMATE" or "MOST ACCURATE" from amature home enthusiasts. The "Elite" section is kind of a slap in the face personaly. I think its highly biased on who gets put there. I would prefer my build be there so I can particiapte more with people who do things on the production levels I do. But honestly I think maybe ten people at best are even aware I have a build on here becaue my posts are immediately lost to posts about Daft Punk helmets, or builds that never get past the mental masturbation stage..."I am going to build the best Jorge EVER!" yeah right. I notice that there is less interest in threads that use traditional building methods. More interest to threads purporting to make bubble gum pet hair work instead of being able to afford some damn resin and sand paper. I bet if I said my armor was made for 5dollars and entirely out of mashed potatoes, then people would flock to the thread in the hopes that they can have a movie quality suit for the cost of bag of flour. Its the pervasive attitude that there simply must be a way to get a full suit for no money or effort that litters this place with useless threads. Other boards are not run this way. I occasionaly will post relevant progress pics when I have something done, but have little interest in sharing when the posts are ignored. I laugh when I read boasts like "no one has made an accurate undersuit yet" from someone whos undersuit post is filled with mental masturbation and no actual production. Several have made very nice undersuits, my own is well underway and has progress pics and personally rocks over the pges of masturbation talk about how someone WANTS to make a suit. But only maybe three people even know I already have molds of MY undersuit parts which I would even be willing to make copies for other members, but hey lets all flock to the masturbation thread about it that has no molds or cast pieces ready to share cause its easier to jerk off thinking about making something than actually making it.
So small wonder that the place has lost its luster? That veteran and or experienced costumers go elsewhere? Its very easy for a grown up to look at the kiddie playground and just go to grownup boards. I share Pep techniques, Sewing methods, sculpting and molding tutorials, materials vendor lists on several other costume boards, but it would be a waste here, which is a shame. I would love if someone made a Halo costume forum, becaue if it existed I would love to share my work there. For now I get a LOT more out of non Halo related boards for sharing the Halo related projects I do, alongside my regualr customer projects.
Nintendude
Well-Known Member
Thank you for that Drgnfyre4 I fully 100% agree with everything you said. I'd honestly love one of these days to work with you on a project since I've seen you on the WPE boards and everything you do there is amazing with your Spartan suit thread you have there. I've honestly quit posting any futher topics for files for other games besides Halo which I have been sharing with people, it was done in the hopes of getting more intrest in the forums which worked in a way only by bringing more new people that don't know a thing into the forums so no more new game character files from me other than Halo.
Guilty as charged on the undersuit thread, :s (awkward silence...)
I understand what you mean. Each section should probably only have five stickies at most. Build threads should be prioritized over "discussion" threads. Same with progress threads.
Relevant material gets buried pretty quickly. The forums are full of threads with no pictures in them due to the "hack" that happened and tore everything down. I feel some of those threads (or all of them) should get deleted. If a thread stays inactive with no one looking at it for 90 days, it should also get deleted.
I personally like the way the undersuit section is. A few stickies, mostly discussion and techniques, but it could use some more real builds. Every item on there is about undersuits, but it does need to be cleaned up-- a lot.
I would be down for helping to clean up and organize old postings in different sections. Goodness knows I'm on here all the time anyways.
I understand what you mean. Each section should probably only have five stickies at most. Build threads should be prioritized over "discussion" threads. Same with progress threads.
Relevant material gets buried pretty quickly. The forums are full of threads with no pictures in them due to the "hack" that happened and tore everything down. I feel some of those threads (or all of them) should get deleted. If a thread stays inactive with no one looking at it for 90 days, it should also get deleted.
I personally like the way the undersuit section is. A few stickies, mostly discussion and techniques, but it could use some more real builds. Every item on there is about undersuits, but it does need to be cleaned up-- a lot.
I would be down for helping to clean up and organize old postings in different sections. Goodness knows I'm on here all the time anyways.
i agree with the site being better before it went down, i joined about a month before, right when i was getting used to the site and then it changed and became all confusing but i got used to it again. now there are so many members (not saying that it is a really bad thing) and so many different kinds of builds that don't even relate to halo, this forum is about halo (once again not saying everyone's builds are bad) and now other types of coustumes have takin it over. just wishing that it would be like it was before the change
What do you mean by the Elite section being biased, do you mean how its mainly the same people? I do have to agree with you on that many noobs have taken over the threads by either demanding people to give them what they want, posting useless threads, demanding "PR0PS NA0 KTHX!" 0r they keep asking the same questions every time. Not ALL, but its been seen a lot IM0. I've had to report so many threads for necroposting, flamewars because a noob never got his way etc... I'm hoping this thread doesn't turn out to be a bashing thread, and hopefully a solution can be worked out. I think the 405th is still a wonderful site! However, its just going through some tough times right now.
Walter Spase
Well-Known Member
It would help us if we saw constructive comments, rather than criticism or rants. Its being discussed on how we will go about fixing things. Its not easy to bring people into the mess before there is a plan on how to clean it up, and we feel that we'll cause more damage than good. Something is in the works, and yes we are still here and we do still care.
Walter, we are glad you and team still care. I'm sure all of us are anxious to wait what's coming. If you wouldn't mind I suggest that you make an anouncement to the forum of what is in the works and when to expect the changes. To alot of us 405th is near and dear to us and all of us are frustrated with the quality of the threads. As you might have read earleir posts, a few of us are willing to help. I'm sure if you send an open invitation to the members you will probably get a few volunteers.
Yep. I'm willing to help, too. In case it wasn't obvious
Constructive comments... Well, here's what I would do:
The main page content ("Top 25" etc.) is something you should think about separately. It would probably make the site feel more homy and complete, but I don't think it's related to the quality of the forum contents, which is what most people seem to be concerned about. Unless you really want to move all the tutorials out of the forum and onto the site itself, I'd think about this later.
Then (ignore the stuff about the stickies if you want to move them out of the forum):
Dealing with the ones who don't want to learn (the noobapocalypsies, 12 year olds, gimmeattituders, lowqualityposters etc.) is more difficult. Some ideas:
Constructive comments... Well, here's what I would do:
- Fix the "Pepakura Files" link (new target: the Costuming Wiki) or remove it.
- Fix the graphical glitch with the menu buttons on top (I posted the fix in Ithica's "speak up" thread a while ago).
- Get rid of the "Recover your password" banner. But don't put up any childish banner contests please, just remove it.
The main page content ("Top 25" etc.) is something you should think about separately. It would probably make the site feel more homy and complete, but I don't think it's related to the quality of the forum contents, which is what most people seem to be concerned about. Unless you really want to move all the tutorials out of the forum and onto the site itself, I'd think about this later.
Then (ignore the stuff about the stickies if you want to move them out of the forum):
- Put all the stickies directly into the Creation Discussion forum (or any other single place), no matter what they're about.
- Remove all stickies that are outdated, lack images, have poor quality or contain gibberish. If the topic is important, have the original author take care of it or have somebody rewrite it. If multiple tutorials cover the same or similar subjects, combine them.
- A common naming scheme for stickies would help in finding the right one. Maybe with prefixes like [Pepakura], [Painting] or [Moulding] so that similar tutorials are displayed as a group, followed by a uniform tutorial indicator (instead of a bunch of different variants, like "XY tutorial", "Tutorial: Do XY", "How to do XY", "XY for beginners" - this makes it difficult to spot the actual topic when scrolling down the list) and then the topic. Example: "[Pepakura] Tutorial: Hardening Pepakura with mashed potatoes"
- Inspired by the Noob Reading List, create a new supersticky with the contents below, in a form that is easy to comprehend (avoid long paragraphs, use colours, etc.) and with numbered "chapters", so that individual parts can be referenced when placing links to it.
- Hard Rules (about what gets you banned on the spot - like "Don't spam!"), with explanations.
- Soft rules (about what makes people hate you - like "Use proper spelling!"), with explanations.
- Explanation what the 405th is (place to learn) and what it is not (place where people live to serve you).
- Basic forum usage tutorial or links to such tutorials. How to post pictures, tips on using the search function, etc.
- Fix the search function. Lots of words are either too short or too common and thus discarded, turning perfectly resonable searches like "ar pep file" or "mk. vi how to" into total nonsense.
- Remove the noob forum. Adam says in his intro video that it's supposed to keep people from starting right off with what they want to do and instead look at and comment on other people's stuff. Problem: If they want to post their own stuff, they're going (and are even supposed to!) to do it in the noob forum anyway and those who are really intent on becoming Infantrymen go and spam any thread that they find, simply to gain the extra privileges. The only thing worth keeping is the restriction on accessing the Classifieds, so that the 405th does not appear as a shop, and to prevent every every second noob from asking for stuff.
Dealing with the ones who don't want to learn (the noobapocalypsies, 12 year olds, gimmeattituders, lowqualityposters etc.) is more difficult. Some ideas:
- The easiest way would be to adapt the rules, find a way to describe what they're doing wrong and simply forbid it ("Don't use abbreviations like 'omfgroflmao'"). Then delete such posts and punish them with temporary bans.
- Or you could be really lax, skip the rules and just delete posts and ban people based on your personal judgement instead. Problem: That's hardly objective and will probably piss off more people than just the ones you ban.
- You could also try to prevent them from joining in the first place, with a quiz or something. But as stated in my last post, I doubt this is going to be easy, even if it works.
- Allowing criticism without an explicit constructive component would probably discourage people from actually posting their stuff, but it would also raise the quality of the builds that are posted. Right now, if you comment without explicitly praising the project, you're automatically the bad guy, even if the project in question is indeed garbage. Examples of what I mean:
- "It's garbage", "Your rifle is bent like a banana" - deconstructive, insulting.
- "Your rifle is bent" - implies that it needs to be un-bent, but has no explicit encouraging component. This is what's not allowed right now, the only thing that would be allowed is...
- ..."It's good, but it's bent, so you need to start over." - which obviously doesn't make any sense.
- Ask IndyMogul to take down the video on Youtube. I know it does explicitly say that making armour is a lot of work and it also says that the armour that is shown costs more than the advertised 100$, but the general message it conveys is that armour can be made quickly and cheaply. I think that is a major incentive for poor kids to join the forums, and to join with false expectations.
- Status
