I was thinking of vacuum forming too for a locus helmet but I have no experience whatsoever. I only have my food cooking oven at home and a regular shop vac . Which type of plastic should I use ? I don't want to put something in my oven that will make my food taste like plastic and I wanna buy something that will work with my non professional shop vac. I saw a "POLYCARBONATE CLEAR PLASTIC LEXAN SHEET at 0.60 " on ebay that was supposedly used especially for vacuum forming but I am unsure and would like help from someone with experience with this kind of stuff
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I was thinking of vacuum forming too for a locus helmet but I have no experience whatsoever. I only have my food cooking oven at home and a regular shop vac . Which type of plastic should I use ? I don't want to put something in my oven that will make my food taste like plastic and I wanna buy something that will work with my non professional shop vac. I saw a "POLYCARBONATE CLEAR PLASTIC LEXAN SHEET at 0.60 " on ebay that was supposedly used especially for vacuum forming but I am unsure and would like help from someone with experience with this kind of stuff
There are some good tutorials out there for home-made vac-forming. It's not as daunting as it may seem.
The most common materials for vacuforming from what I've seen are:
Transparent: PETG, Acrylic, Polycarb
Opaque: Polystyrene, ABS
Of those, Polystyrene and ABS are explicitely NOT food safe. The styrene in them can outgas a little when they're heated, and it will coat your oven and get into your food. I understand styrene to be mutagenic, carcinogenic, and toxic.
For visors, polycarb acrylic and petg are obviously the ones you're looking at. I see some places say polycarb has BPA in it and acrylic is food safe, others that say polycarb is food safe and acrylic melts too easily in food applications. I don't think it's good for me to give out advice on what's SAFE for your oven since I'm a shmoe on a forum. Honestly if it's a serious concern, I'd either get a separate oven, or find someone to vacuform the parts for you. Polycarb is going to need to be baked in your oven a good 1-3 hours before you can pull it, and if it IS releasing chemicals, that's going to thoroughly coat your oven.
I personally favor Acrylic over PETG and Polycarb. Once heat treated for an hour, it pulls very nicely. PETG is cheap and easy to work with but flimsy and cheap-o. Polycarb is strong but TOO stiff and requires a lot of pre-baking before it can be pulled (and it's expensive).
Apparently there's a TAP in Seattle, Lynnwood, and Bellevue WA. If you are ever near those places, it's a good resource for acrylic and polycarb. If you buy from the internet, be aware that while sheets of plastics can say they're for vacuforming, some of them will be so thick that they will either take forever to heat up and pull, or will be so thick they'll lose any details of the object under them (Imagine slapping a thick layer of bondo over an entire helmet, you lose all the details!) I have sheets of 0.125" Acrylic and it's fairly tough to pull with. 0.6" is more than half an inch and I've seen in brochures for nice vacuformers bragging about being able to pull 0.5" plastic like it was an accomplishment, so I would be wary of trying to do that with a home built system.
The most common materials for vacuforming from what I've seen are:
Transparent: PETG, Acrylic, Polycarb
Opaque: Polystyrene, ABS
Of those, Polystyrene and ABS are explicitely NOT food safe. The styrene in them can outgas a little when they're heated, and it will coat your oven and get into your food. I understand styrene to be mutagenic, carcinogenic, and toxic.
For visors, polycarb acrylic and petg are obviously the ones you're looking at. I see some places say polycarb has BPA in it and acrylic is food safe, others that say polycarb is food safe and acrylic melts too easily in food applications. I don't think it's good for me to give out advice on what's SAFE for your oven since I'm a shmoe on a forum. Honestly if it's a serious concern, I'd either get a separate oven, or find someone to vacuform the parts for you. Polycarb is going to need to be baked in your oven a good 1-3 hours before you can pull it, and if it IS releasing chemicals, that's going to thoroughly coat your oven.
I personally favor Acrylic over PETG and Polycarb. Once heat treated for an hour, it pulls very nicely. PETG is cheap and easy to work with but flimsy and cheap-o. Polycarb is strong but TOO stiff and requires a lot of pre-baking before it can be pulled (and it's expensive).
Apparently there's a TAP in Seattle, Lynnwood, and Bellevue WA. If you are ever near those places, it's a good resource for acrylic and polycarb. If you buy from the internet, be aware that while sheets of plastics can say they're for vacuforming, some of them will be so thick that they will either take forever to heat up and pull, or will be so thick they'll lose any details of the object under them (Imagine slapping a thick layer of bondo over an entire helmet, you lose all the details!) I have sheets of 0.125" Acrylic and it's fairly tough to pull with. 0.6" is more than half an inch and I've seen in brochures for nice vacuformers bragging about being able to pull 0.5" plastic like it was an accomplishment, so I would be wary of trying to do that with a home built system.
Thanks. On a tangential note I printed out my test chestplate:
Since nothing horrible happened with the print, I'll send the file to the shopbot and prepare a vacuform buck for chestplates. I don't know if I want the "wing" tabs on either side of the center piece to be separate add-ons or part of the plate. Usually they're black while the rest of the plate is grey.
Since nothing horrible happened with the print, I'll send the file to the shopbot and prepare a vacuform buck for chestplates. I don't know if I want the "wing" tabs on either side of the center piece to be separate add-ons or part of the plate. Usually they're black while the rest of the plate is grey.
tippmannrunner
New Member
what the best plastics to use to do vacuum forming ???? i have most of the concept but i dont know what im looking for????
The best plastic depends on your needs. There are three "general" use plastics. Note: These are usually transparent.
PETG: Soda bottle plastic. It's very cheap, flexible and thin, VERY easy to vacuform with.
Acrylic: Plexiglass, it is mid price, stiff and thicker, but it requires prebaking (100F for 1hr) to vacuform properly. Comes in colors very easily.
Polycarbonate: Lexan, it is expensive, VERY VERY strong and scratch resistant, but it requires prebaking (175F for 2hr) to vacuform properly. I've only seen this transparent.
If you get a transparent plastic, you can dye it with iPoly Dyes, or use RedShirt's coloring method:
http://www.405th.com/showthread.php/16910-Tutorial-Make-amp-Paint-Your-Own-See-through-Visor
tippmannrunner
New Member
thanks for the info about the plastics. I was wondering, I have noticed in some videos that the people doing the vacuum forming was having some trouble removing the buck from the form... What do you recommend to remove it.. Also i only have a cooking oven in my house. Is there a cheap or near cheap oven i could buy to do this with or can it be made????
1) Release: Properly designed vacuform molds do NOT need mold release. By properly giving a mold a "draft angle" the mold is able to naturally release. The reason why molds get stuck is because the plastic shrinks a bit as it is cooling, causing it to grip the mold. If the outer walls of a mold are 90 degrees (the angle) or inwards, then the plastic latches on and can't be removed without destroying/bending the mold or the plastic pull. If your draft angles are bad enough, no release agent (liquids etc) will be able to help you.
In this picture you can see the draft angle sweeping out from the visor itself. I am able to lift the plastic easily off this mold. It's infinitely easier to vacuform a properly designed mold, than try and find a chemical release agent.
2) Ovens: I can't help you much on this one except to say that you should look online for tutorials on home-made vacuform systems. I have access to a full all-in-one vacuform table so I never bothered to learn the steps for making one myself. I do know that you should never use the oven you intend to eat with, as many of the plastics you vacuform with can let out small amounts of nasty chemicals. They're generally safe enough so long as you never eat anything cooked in the same device as them. Maybe look around at some yard sales for an electric oven. The ultimate poorman option is to use a heatgun and a LOT of patience.
In this picture you can see the draft angle sweeping out from the visor itself. I am able to lift the plastic easily off this mold. It's infinitely easier to vacuform a properly designed mold, than try and find a chemical release agent.
2) Ovens: I can't help you much on this one except to say that you should look online for tutorials on home-made vacuform systems. I have access to a full all-in-one vacuform table so I never bothered to learn the steps for making one myself. I do know that you should never use the oven you intend to eat with, as many of the plastics you vacuform with can let out small amounts of nasty chemicals. They're generally safe enough so long as you never eat anything cooked in the same device as them. Maybe look around at some yard sales for an electric oven. The ultimate poorman option is to use a heatgun and a LOT of patience.
tippmannrunner
New Member
thanks for that info ... hope the helmet and the rest of the armor is going well... Though i had another thought ??? what are the draft angles your talking about? i can see what you are tlking about in the picture...
tippmannrunner
New Member
Hey im just starting to work on the pep files (again) for the WETA ODST.. and i was wondering would the halo world hate me for doing Night Digi-Camo?
They are extra parts added on to add a "swoop" away from the actual piece (the visor). They are a mechanical release in that they prevent the plastic from being able to grip the mold when vacuum forming. Without those parts, I'd have to destroy the visor to get it off the mold (especially when pulling stiff plastics like acrylic).
Also yes. You do not need our permission to do anything to your armor. This isn't the 501st afterall...
tippmannrunner
New Member
They are extra parts added on to add a "swoop" away from the actual piece (the visor). They are a mechanical release in that they prevent the plastic from being able to grip the mold when vacuum forming. Without those parts, I'd have to destroy the visor to get it off the mold (especially when pulling stiff plastics like acrylic).
Also yes. You do not need our permission to do anything to your armor. This isn't the 501st afterall...
That makes so much more since now.. thank you
And the helmet is done. I am quite happy with how the metallic black turned out, though I would have liked it to stand out against the flat black a bit more starkly.
This sadly is not for me. This helmet is being sent off to the person who bought it from me. I'll probably be focusing on my Mk V next.
This sadly is not for me. This helmet is being sent off to the person who bought it from me. I'll probably be focusing on my Mk V next.
Kibiri Foxx
New Member
That helmet looks sweet!!! Great work.
As for color choices and such- one thing I learned is pretty much anything goes military-esk wise. Heck, I have a Starfox logo on my chest and an N7 stripe ;-)
As for color choices and such- one thing I learned is pretty much anything goes military-esk wise. Heck, I have a Starfox logo on my chest and an N7 stripe ;-)
Kibiri Foxx
New Member
Also, the words in the the background are priceless!
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