TutlarAce06
Active Member
Wow, thank you for all the information!
Show us your 3D printer/ CNC machine!!!
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peterthethinker
Well-Known Member
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with all due respect . the avg cos-player here spends under a grand on Pep or foam raw parts.
What makes you think that a Huge machine worth 1700 is gonna fly here. Or worse 3 grand for the Gmax.
The rostock and hatchbox are I agree reasonable machines and I LOVE my Rostock max but We need to find a set of Well made kits that are in the range of more people...
this is the reason cosplayers dont make tons of props on Printers The cost is too high .
What makes you think that a Huge machine worth 1700 is gonna fly here. Or worse 3 grand for the Gmax.
The rostock and hatchbox are I agree reasonable machines and I LOVE my Rostock max but We need to find a set of Well made kits that are in the range of more people...
this is the reason cosplayers dont make tons of props on Printers The cost is too high .
Hm.
With all due respect :
I've seen you propose machines costing well over 2 times that much Peter in the past on this forum. Just like you once commented that "a good printer could be made of wood for whatever you cared" when I mentioned I was going for my first build in Steel.
Just an observation.
I'm just saying : I see you proposing a 1000€ Prusa MK2 which, when you get it shipped to the US, will not be that much cheaper than the cheapest Formbot config, yet the Formbot is a lot more value for the money and is mechanically way superior.
Chernobyl stated she had some restraint on the "cheap" idea. so I proposed what I think is still viable and as-much-punch-as-possible for your money, right NOW. The Formbot locks into that : no hidden costs, not "**** I was better off getting a bigger one", no crummy ABS printed (not even injection molded !!!) parts that WILL fail soon enough. I can show you my ABS printed motor mounts which didn't survive 6 months before they became warped by using the machine on a daily basis. "Oh yes you can print out the repair part" sure, but you're better off with a part that simply can't go bad like that.
Locked to a 500USD budget and ready to assemble one yourself ? FolgerTech FT-5. Huge community for Folgers.
Other than that ? You're "stuck" (lack of a better word) with things like Wanhao. No escaping that.
With all due respect :
I've seen you propose machines costing well over 2 times that much Peter in the past on this forum. Just like you once commented that "a good printer could be made of wood for whatever you cared" when I mentioned I was going for my first build in Steel.
Just an observation.
I'm just saying : I see you proposing a 1000€ Prusa MK2 which, when you get it shipped to the US, will not be that much cheaper than the cheapest Formbot config, yet the Formbot is a lot more value for the money and is mechanically way superior.
Chernobyl stated she had some restraint on the "cheap" idea. so I proposed what I think is still viable and as-much-punch-as-possible for your money, right NOW. The Formbot locks into that : no hidden costs, not "**** I was better off getting a bigger one", no crummy ABS printed (not even injection molded !!!) parts that WILL fail soon enough. I can show you my ABS printed motor mounts which didn't survive 6 months before they became warped by using the machine on a daily basis. "Oh yes you can print out the repair part" sure, but you're better off with a part that simply can't go bad like that.
Locked to a 500USD budget and ready to assemble one yourself ? FolgerTech FT-5. Huge community for Folgers.
Other than that ? You're "stuck" (lack of a better word) with things like Wanhao. No escaping that.
Also, by extension : while the temptation is great to go for that 300USD machine, it's a simple matter of fact that unless you yourself are able to do repairs and maintenance on it, that machine will probably _not_ survive a big print job like a full armor.
Look at tijojo98's situation with his Wanhao as example. Now, I hope, and I'm sure his machine will get fixed. But it's typicall this kind of fault exists on a machine like a Wanhao : these brands MUST cut corners to achieve the price point. And Wanhao is one of the better knowns and better quality-type machines in that market. Yet the amount of design compromises they had to do are _significant_ and again will result in their machines, at least the rock bottom priced ones, representing a bad buy on longer terms for anyone else than the technically minded tinkerer who's not bothered by the idea that stuff will break, but can be repaired by him or herself.
And by longer terms, I'm talking about just ONE major build.
Spending 300 or even 500USD on a "cheap machine" that won't last through your first major build is burning money. Plain and simple.
I applaud sub 300USD machines. Heck I have designed and build them, and I use them daily. They can be fab, they can produce quality which can put output of machines costing 10x as much to shame.
But they are not for everyone.
I know full well, and I understood waaaay earlier that 3D printing will not become standard at the current price tag. Nor is everyone willing to invest the time and effort to come to understand the ins and outs of 3D printing, which you NEED to do as long as 3D printing machines are still quite a long way from the PlugandPlay solution they were predcited to be by this time.
Hence, again, why we started PrintPool. It's the stopgap solution for this situation. It enables people who as yet can't afford a 3D machine to have access to 3D prints at virutally cost.
As long as the 3D market is like it is, this situation will not change.
And I think it's up to us who do have machines available, to be part of the solution for those out there wanting to get into 3D, but not being able to do so right now.
Look at tijojo98's situation with his Wanhao as example. Now, I hope, and I'm sure his machine will get fixed. But it's typicall this kind of fault exists on a machine like a Wanhao : these brands MUST cut corners to achieve the price point. And Wanhao is one of the better knowns and better quality-type machines in that market. Yet the amount of design compromises they had to do are _significant_ and again will result in their machines, at least the rock bottom priced ones, representing a bad buy on longer terms for anyone else than the technically minded tinkerer who's not bothered by the idea that stuff will break, but can be repaired by him or herself.
And by longer terms, I'm talking about just ONE major build.
Spending 300 or even 500USD on a "cheap machine" that won't last through your first major build is burning money. Plain and simple.
I applaud sub 300USD machines. Heck I have designed and build them, and I use them daily. They can be fab, they can produce quality which can put output of machines costing 10x as much to shame.
But they are not for everyone.
I know full well, and I understood waaaay earlier that 3D printing will not become standard at the current price tag. Nor is everyone willing to invest the time and effort to come to understand the ins and outs of 3D printing, which you NEED to do as long as 3D printing machines are still quite a long way from the PlugandPlay solution they were predcited to be by this time.
Hence, again, why we started PrintPool. It's the stopgap solution for this situation. It enables people who as yet can't afford a 3D machine to have access to 3D prints at virutally cost.
As long as the 3D market is like it is, this situation will not change.
And I think it's up to us who do have machines available, to be part of the solution for those out there wanting to get into 3D, but not being able to do so right now.
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Here's a general question to anyone who owns a machine with a big build volume. I have a build volume of 200 x 250 x 200. Are the larger build platforms (400x400x470) worth the extra investment?
Euh, that's everybody for himself to decide. 
To me ? Yes. To you ? Maybe not.
Here it is : if you _question_ it, probably not.
There's nothing you absolutly _can not_ do with a smaller machine, at least not in the type of enviroment like this (hobby/crafting/recreational).
But having a big sized one can -not always will- make your life substatially easier as a 3D printer. It also produces a couple of extra issues, depending on what material you're aiming to print. Stress-induced faults will be something you would be battling a lot more on a monster machine than a (relativly) small build size when you're using, say ABS.
But it does make it possible to make bigger objects with less afterwork. Like a gauntlet/leg piece in just one part like I can on the Hatchbox and the selfbuild/designed 280x390 (depending on hotend) Delta's I'm lucky to own.
A full helmet on something like a Formbot/gMax/.... ? No problem.
By the way, there's also a Multoo MT1 out there. Fairly new. Also a gMax clone, without the whissles and bells of a Formbot. Goes for about 1200USD. Didn't want to mention that one because I have personally no experience with them what so ever.
If you say "screw it, I simply craft it together" than just keep doing that. In the end, in real life, it's unlikely someone will notice.
TBH, look : http://www.3ders.org/articles/20151...-3d-printed-master-chief-armor-from-halo.html
Look at the pics. That is amazing work. And it was done on a humble DIY Velleman K8xxx series which has a buildplate very much comparable to your current machine.
BUT also look at, for example, the shoulder piece. Although nicely done, I can still see the seam running down that part at half width of it (in the black area). Would that bother me ?
..... yes it would.
Would that bother other people ? No probably not, as the whole suit looks so great nobody will notice. Hell, if seeing that suit in person myself on a con, I wouldn't notice it either !
Would that bother you ? Only you can answer that. (and yeah, I know, with a little more of afterwork, that seam should not have been visable there : it's perfectly possible to make that thing as smooth as a babies butt)
But if your current machine is on the way out for whatever reason, or you're looking for an additional one ? I -pure personally- would rather save sometime longer and go for a bigger one than buy a second, equal one.
But that's just my opinion. It's a 100% pure personal thing. Like, some people like driving BMW's. I think they're nice cars, but I can't bring myself spending that much money on a thing that basically performs the same basic function as a car costing way less.
For example, A Formbot will automatically pauze a print when it runs out of filament. It very nicely will put the printhead in park, and await you, the user, to change filament. No more "ohgoohgod why don't I do filament management on my spools" kind of stuff. Just print. No more "crap 20 meters here and 10 there and 30 there" spools. You just use them till they end.
That's just one of the nice things a Formbot has. Is that worth it ? Will it make your prints BETTER ? No.
Is it a cool feature to have ?
You betcha.
Laser engraver module add-on ? Needed ? No. Want ? YES.
TBI Ball Bearing/Zero Backlash ? Needed ? No. Does it make difference ? YES.
Programmable heatbed with dual zone structure. Needed ? No. Nice to have ? Certainly
Dual INDEPENDANT extruders ? Needed ? No. Totally cool to watch and use ? You have no idea.
The list is endless. And it boils down to what YOU want to spend your money on.
In terms of hobby use ? That's exactly the same thing. If you're asking for a rational answer to a question that is emotionally loaded (because I suspect we're all doing this because we LIKE to do it, not because we HAVE to do it), only the person him/herself can give the right answer.
Also, Look BEYOND your hobby. Sure, 1000USD, 2000USD or more spending on something JUST to make that "totally awesome Halo armor on" ? I couldn't bring myself doing that.
But as a TOOL that should give you way more different methods to experiment, work, learn, possibly EARN some money with ? Or even just to _make other people happy somehow_ ??
Oh, I think it should be considered.
Pretty sure there are worse ways to spend your money.
To me ? Yes. To you ? Maybe not.
Here it is : if you _question_ it, probably not.
There's nothing you absolutly _can not_ do with a smaller machine, at least not in the type of enviroment like this (hobby/crafting/recreational).
But having a big sized one can -not always will- make your life substatially easier as a 3D printer. It also produces a couple of extra issues, depending on what material you're aiming to print. Stress-induced faults will be something you would be battling a lot more on a monster machine than a (relativly) small build size when you're using, say ABS.
But it does make it possible to make bigger objects with less afterwork. Like a gauntlet/leg piece in just one part like I can on the Hatchbox and the selfbuild/designed 280x390 (depending on hotend) Delta's I'm lucky to own.
A full helmet on something like a Formbot/gMax/.... ? No problem.
By the way, there's also a Multoo MT1 out there. Fairly new. Also a gMax clone, without the whissles and bells of a Formbot. Goes for about 1200USD. Didn't want to mention that one because I have personally no experience with them what so ever.
If you say "screw it, I simply craft it together" than just keep doing that. In the end, in real life, it's unlikely someone will notice.
TBH, look : http://www.3ders.org/articles/20151...-3d-printed-master-chief-armor-from-halo.html
Look at the pics. That is amazing work. And it was done on a humble DIY Velleman K8xxx series which has a buildplate very much comparable to your current machine.
BUT also look at, for example, the shoulder piece. Although nicely done, I can still see the seam running down that part at half width of it (in the black area). Would that bother me ?
..... yes it would.
Would that bother other people ? No probably not, as the whole suit looks so great nobody will notice. Hell, if seeing that suit in person myself on a con, I wouldn't notice it either !
Would that bother you ? Only you can answer that.
(and yeah, I know, with a little more of afterwork, that seam should not have been visable there : it's perfectly possible to make that thing as smooth as a babies butt)But if your current machine is on the way out for whatever reason, or you're looking for an additional one ? I -pure personally- would rather save sometime longer and go for a bigger one than buy a second, equal one.
But that's just my opinion. It's a 100% pure personal thing. Like, some people like driving BMW's. I think they're nice cars, but I can't bring myself spending that much money on a thing that basically performs the same basic function as a car costing way less.
For example, A Formbot will automatically pauze a print when it runs out of filament. It very nicely will put the printhead in park, and await you, the user, to change filament. No more "ohgoohgod why don't I do filament management on my spools" kind of stuff. Just print. No more "crap 20 meters here and 10 there and 30 there" spools. You just use them till they end.
That's just one of the nice things a Formbot has. Is that worth it ? Will it make your prints BETTER ? No.
Is it a cool feature to have ?
You betcha.
Laser engraver module add-on ? Needed ? No. Want ? YES.
TBI Ball Bearing/Zero Backlash ? Needed ? No. Does it make difference ? YES.
Programmable heatbed with dual zone structure. Needed ? No. Nice to have ? Certainly
Dual INDEPENDANT extruders ? Needed ? No. Totally cool to watch and use ? You have no idea.
The list is endless. And it boils down to what YOU want to spend your money on.
In terms of hobby use ? That's exactly the same thing. If you're asking for a rational answer to a question that is emotionally loaded (because I suspect we're all doing this because we LIKE to do it, not because we HAVE to do it), only the person him/herself can give the right answer.
Also, Look BEYOND your hobby. Sure, 1000USD, 2000USD or more spending on something JUST to make that "totally awesome Halo armor on" ? I couldn't bring myself doing that.
But as a TOOL that should give you way more different methods to experiment, work, learn, possibly EARN some money with ? Or even just to _make other people happy somehow_ ??
Oh, I think it should be considered.
Pretty sure there are worse ways to spend your money.
Chernobyl
Sr Member
Alright, guys, let's try and cool down the attitude down a little here, I sense a little tension.
The idea here is to try and focus on a broad spectrum of printers, from the entry-level 'cheap' builds right the way up to the fridge-sized industry-level printers. They're all viable to some degree, and for the general hobbyist we're probably going to look at early-to-mid-level printers (not every member is going to be able to foot a few thousand for a high-end printer!) - which is absolutely fine.
Now, play nice, guys. You're both experts in your field, find a way to work together.
The idea here is to try and focus on a broad spectrum of printers, from the entry-level 'cheap' builds right the way up to the fridge-sized industry-level printers. They're all viable to some degree, and for the general hobbyist we're probably going to look at early-to-mid-level printers (not every member is going to be able to foot a few thousand for a high-end printer!) - which is absolutely fine.
Now, play nice, guys. You're both experts in your field, find a way to work together.
Heh, there's no ill feeling from my side, Chernobyl.
I cherrish Peter as a person and value his outspoken opinions, but that doesn't mean I need to agree with them when I have a different opinion.
Nor do I choose to pass my opinions as facts.
It wouldn't be respectful nor polite to make any assumptions, but I do think it's not any different for him.
For the record : I do not consider me to be any kind of expert. I know what I know, because I learned it and I share what I learned first hand with others.
And I know I still have a lot more to learn, and I still do everyday.
I expect we all do that. Otherwise, we'd not be here.
*waves friendly at Peter*
I cherrish Peter as a person and value his outspoken opinions, but that doesn't mean I need to agree with them when I have a different opinion.
Nor do I choose to pass my opinions as facts.
It wouldn't be respectful nor polite to make any assumptions, but I do think it's not any different for him.
For the record : I do not consider me to be any kind of expert. I know what I know, because I learned it and I share what I learned first hand with others.
And I know I still have a lot more to learn, and I still do everyday.
I expect we all do that. Otherwise, we'd not be here.
*waves friendly at Peter*
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