CyberPaddy66
Jr Member
Larry Niven - Ringworld... nuff said 
Space Colonies
- Thread starter SchizophrenicMC
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SchizophrenicMC
Well-Known Member
Let's keep out of the scifi, here. Ringworld was a whole AU across, wasn't it? That's just pure handwavium right there.Larry Niven - Ringworld... nuff said
CyberPaddy66
Jr Member
Hey, if were going to dream of a living space for colonies why not think big
personally I believe until we have a working moon base there's not going to be a space colony and as I grew up on Space 1999 I say lets do it Halo and Ringworld are 8,000KM-10,000 KM in diameter, a little smaller than earth.
Mars has water that is both highly toxic in the northern part near the ice cap, and somewhat toxic in the equatorial zone. Water also is beneath the surface at a low water table. Also the Northern Ice Cap has snow fall.-cre, Pheonix 2010 mission.
The moon has some materials that could be used but it could mess up the tides and earth's position, moon is already moving farther away.
Extrasolar colonies are a bit far out there currently. And the only FTL capable engine drive is 7 years away from being a actuality; and it would only get us to mars in 3 weeks as it is now much less a colony anywhere outside the solar system.
I think we should wait and continue to develop FTL technology such as Warp drives for colonization and exploration purposes, Because I like Star Trek and it is the most plausible FTL system out there.
Terraforming would taking thousands of years to do so when Humanity does colonize Mars and Extrasolar planets it will have to make due with Suits, or it could just go to planets that are atmospherically like Earth....but that would be probably like 1 in a trillion chance, and even still might have elements in the atmosphere thate might require masks.
Another possiblity could be Cryopod or generation ships, but we do not have the technology to revive people from Cryo; also where would peoples bodies be placed once they're dead? coffens shot out at space like a sea burial?
so many unknowns and possiblities of disaster but we could probably do it.
Mars has water that is both highly toxic in the northern part near the ice cap, and somewhat toxic in the equatorial zone. Water also is beneath the surface at a low water table. Also the Northern Ice Cap has snow fall.-cre, Pheonix 2010 mission.
The moon has some materials that could be used but it could mess up the tides and earth's position, moon is already moving farther away.
Extrasolar colonies are a bit far out there currently. And the only FTL capable engine drive is 7 years away from being a actuality; and it would only get us to mars in 3 weeks as it is now much less a colony anywhere outside the solar system.
I think we should wait and continue to develop FTL technology such as Warp drives for colonization and exploration purposes, Because I like Star Trek and it is the most plausible FTL system out there.
Terraforming would taking thousands of years to do so when Humanity does colonize Mars and Extrasolar planets it will have to make due with Suits, or it could just go to planets that are atmospherically like Earth....but that would be probably like 1 in a trillion chance, and even still might have elements in the atmosphere thate might require masks.
Another possiblity could be Cryopod or generation ships, but we do not have the technology to revive people from Cryo; also where would peoples bodies be placed once they're dead? coffens shot out at space like a sea burial?
so many unknowns and possiblities of disaster but we could probably do it.
SchizophrenicMC
Well-Known Member
Luna has an approximate mass of 7.36x10^22 kg. Earth's is 5.974x10^24 kg. That means, at the distance between them, the force of gravitation is 1.98 x 10^20 N. This creates the tidal effect, known today.
A moon base would not remove any mass from the moon, so gravitational force would remain nearly the same. (Save the added mass of the population)
The total volume of an O'Neill Cylinder is 1875km^3, or so. At a 50% pressure atmosphere, made of 2meter-thick steel walls, assuming 3.29 x 10^13 kg mass for each mirror, the total mass of an O'Neill is 1.26 x 10^17 kg. This is easily the largest structure ever created by mankind, and most definitely the heaviest. Making it entirely out of Lunar material puts the remaining mass of Luna at 7.359 x 10^22kg. In other words, constructing it used a fraction of a percent of Luna's mass, so small, I'm too tired to calculate it. This has the obvious implication that gravity, thus tides, are unaffected by even the most massive construction projects undertaken by mankind. I won't even calculate, right now, at what point an even noticeable difference in tides would begin, nor how much we'd have to scrape out of the sacred white light in the sky.
Humanity will be extinct before we see the tides change due to the moon's migration away.
Faster-than-light has yet to be proven to even exist by the general laws of physics. It's hundreds of years before we can even achieve notable percentages of the speed of light. You can't even consider extrasolar colonization at this stage. You can hardly consider exploration, because, we simply do not know how to restore a body from cryogenic sleep. Warp doesn't seem remotely possible at this stage, and I refuse to get into why right now.
To colonize a planet with equal gravity to Earth, but with a different atmosphere, essentially requires building a series of small space colonies on the surface. Even then, you have to find the planets, and go there. It gets trickier if gravity is different.
Right now, our best bet at putting populations out of the cradle, is to put them in colonies in orbit.
A moon base would not remove any mass from the moon, so gravitational force would remain nearly the same. (Save the added mass of the population)
The total volume of an O'Neill Cylinder is 1875km^3, or so. At a 50% pressure atmosphere, made of 2meter-thick steel walls, assuming 3.29 x 10^13 kg mass for each mirror, the total mass of an O'Neill is 1.26 x 10^17 kg. This is easily the largest structure ever created by mankind, and most definitely the heaviest. Making it entirely out of Lunar material puts the remaining mass of Luna at 7.359 x 10^22kg. In other words, constructing it used a fraction of a percent of Luna's mass, so small, I'm too tired to calculate it. This has the obvious implication that gravity, thus tides, are unaffected by even the most massive construction projects undertaken by mankind. I won't even calculate, right now, at what point an even noticeable difference in tides would begin, nor how much we'd have to scrape out of the sacred white light in the sky.
Humanity will be extinct before we see the tides change due to the moon's migration away.
Faster-than-light has yet to be proven to even exist by the general laws of physics. It's hundreds of years before we can even achieve notable percentages of the speed of light. You can't even consider extrasolar colonization at this stage. You can hardly consider exploration, because, we simply do not know how to restore a body from cryogenic sleep. Warp doesn't seem remotely possible at this stage, and I refuse to get into why right now.
To colonize a planet with equal gravity to Earth, but with a different atmosphere, essentially requires building a series of small space colonies on the surface. Even then, you have to find the planets, and go there. It gets trickier if gravity is different.
Right now, our best bet at putting populations out of the cradle, is to put them in colonies in orbit.
SchizophrenicMC
Well-Known Member
Faster than Light means capable of reaching speeds in excess of 300,000 km/s. There are REALLY fast engines, but none that can drive a craft to anything NEAR the speed of light. Current travel to Mars takes 6 months. The Variable Specific Impulse Magnetoplasma Rocket is an ion engine than can drive a craft, theoretically, to Mars in a few weeks. Light can make the journey in 3 minutes, 3.6 seconds, at the CLOSEST Earth and Mars can orbit.
Keep in mind, FTL is strictly sci-fi, right now, and only refers to things that bend the laws of physics, to allow things to move faster than the beam coming out of your flashlight. Ion engines are normal impulse engines, like chemical rockets, combined with railguns.
Even still, if you can get to Mars in a month, you still have to spend a decade building your settlement, and figuring out some way to keep people from deteriorating under less than standard G.
See this right here? This makes me cry. Seriously.
"Somewhat faster than light"
You are either travelling slower-than, at the same speed as, or faster than. You can't be "Somewhat faster than" You either are faster than something or not.
And if it was FTL, then the journey would not be weeks, it would be minutes. In-system distances are huge, but the Sun itself is only 8 light-minutes away and mars is only 0.5 of an AU further out than us.
Regardless of whether it is a prototype, it's not FTL, and there's no such thing as "Somewhat" faster than light. It's either going faster than the speed of light, or it is not going faster.
EDIT
Going to quote SchizophrenicMC here to see if that clarifies things... Emphasis added by me.
"Faster than Light means capable of reaching speeds in excess of 300,000 km/s. There are REALLY fast engines, but none that can drive a craft to anything NEAR the speed of light. Current travel to Mars takes 6 months. The Variable Specific Impulse Magnetoplasma Rocket is an ion engine than can drive a craft, theoretically, to Mars in a few weeks. Light can make the journey in 3 minutes, 3.6 seconds, at the CLOSEST Earth and Mars can orbit."
The VASMIR is not a magical laws of physics breaking engine, it's still limited by physics. It would get people to Mars several weeks after light sent at the same time would. If it was FTL, they would arrive Before the light not after it....
now on to the topic of firing a rifle or other firearm in space and low grav. planets.
Fun!
Personnally I think that we should do a little bit of research on it. I mean what if a theoritical cop had to shoot a good-for-not'in hoodlem on one of the walkways on the outside of the station? Of course the firing of it wouldn't be complicated....bullets have their own oxidizer in the powder, the recoil part would be tricky though.
Russian Comosnuaghts have firearms in their spacecraft.
Fun!
Personnally I think that we should do a little bit of research on it. I mean what if a theoritical cop had to shoot a good-for-not'in hoodlem on one of the walkways on the outside of the station? Of course the firing of it wouldn't be complicated....bullets have their own oxidizer in the powder, the recoil part would be tricky though.
Russian Comosnuaghts have firearms in their spacecraft.
gingersnapples
Well-Known Member
they do, i recall the russians mounting a hmg to the top of thier station. recoil in space might pe a problem, but the bullet would contain all the kinetic energy that it aquired after igniting the propellant.
Trooper114
Well-Known Member
Every action has a equal and opposite reaction, if a round is shot, yes the bullet will take off but the station might fly back abit because of recoil. Space is a vaccume so the only way to stop the staion from flying back forever would be stabilizers on the opposite side of the station. If i recall, firing a gun in space may acctually increase the speed of the round, no air = no friction and no drag.
Edit: I also recall Ghost of Onyx, Kurt had his AR connected to a certian kind of "backpack" that would act as a stablizer, generating the same amount of force as the recoil in order to cancel that motion every time he fired in space.
Edit: I also recall Ghost of Onyx, Kurt had his AR connected to a certian kind of "backpack" that would act as a stablizer, generating the same amount of force as the recoil in order to cancel that motion every time he fired in space.
SchizophrenicMC
Well-Known Member
If you fire a gun in space, you have to apply an equivalent force in the same direction to counter the bullet's reaction force. You can do this with thrusters or creative use of torque. In fact, the original O'Neill Cylinder design called for 2 counter-rotating cylinders to be connected by an arm, so that by changing each other's rotation slightly, it could maneuver without using any reaction mass.
Kurt used a thruster pack on his MJOLNIR, coordinated to the sensors in the armor, so when the gun fired, it would apply exactly enough thrust to keep him from moving. It did the same to counteract limb movements, as, in microgravity, those also affect your position.
Back to Space Colonies and the like, if you're not moving 300,001km/s or more, you're not FTL. Not even somewhat. If you're moving 299,999km/s or less, you're using a conventional thrust engine. You are adhering to the laws of physics, and a beam of light shined from your start position will reach your destination before you.
Man, the moon is HEAVY.
Kurt used a thruster pack on his MJOLNIR, coordinated to the sensors in the armor, so when the gun fired, it would apply exactly enough thrust to keep him from moving. It did the same to counteract limb movements, as, in microgravity, those also affect your position.
Back to Space Colonies and the like, if you're not moving 300,001km/s or more, you're not FTL. Not even somewhat. If you're moving 299,999km/s or less, you're using a conventional thrust engine. You are adhering to the laws of physics, and a beam of light shined from your start position will reach your destination before you.
Man, the moon is HEAVY.
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