Updates for the 405th in 2015! ALL PLEASE READ!

[Art Andrews]

2015 is set to be an incredible year for the 405th. As many of you know, we stepped into some very big shoes in July of 2014 and it has taken us a while to get our bearings, but we are now ready to move forward with two major projects this year:

1) 405th Club implementation
2) Transition to a modern software platform

While the second task is mostly a behind-the-scenes thing, finally solidifying the club aspect of this community and getting it off the ground will involve all of us!

For those who haven’t looked over it, you can review the basic tenants and layout of the club here:

http://www.405th.com/faq.php?faq=405th_costuming_club

With this in mind, we are making our first Division Staff appointment:

405th member, FANGS has graciously accepted the position of DXO, which means she will serve the community as the acting President and will preside over the staff. For those who may not know FANGS (Angela), she has been a long time member of the 501st and has served in some of the highest offices of that club, which has provided her with a lot of experience in this area. While I will continue to manage the technical aspects of the community (the server/software side), Angela will be replacing me as the primary point of contact for all the day to day issues, questions and concerns.

Both Ashuraa and Masterchief0624 have also stepped up to help us get the club up and running; to get Regiments formalized and get memberships approved which is going to be a tremendous task!

So, what are the next steps? Ashuraa and Masterchief0624 will be reaching out to the current moderators of each of our regiments to get the regiments officially recognized. Once that is done, we will begin the process of electing a Regiment CO. Finally, we will begin taking applications for “Deployed” status membership. It is going to be a little tricky this first time, but we are pretty excited to get it off the ground and to finally get things going!

 

[foxleader]

geek I'm think about setting up a forum that well have to fill out to request approval to events prop shipments and other small things because by what I'm understand each reg has to get approval from one another before they can even make a move which is going to turn pax and dragon con sign up in to a FUBAR events because it will take to long to get approval.

 

[Art Andrews]

Is there some sort of formal process for getting the approval of our CO for this year? Or are we to just send our requests via PM?

Because it is a one time thing, there isn't a formal process. Just send a PM.

 

[Asgardianhammer]

Thank you all for your dialogue and hard work. Fangs and Art for the time and careful deliberation on all items. It does have to start somewhere and it is a good place that will evolve. I believe intentions are good and honest. Those of us with completed costumes are the face of the 405th but no less important than the rest of the crew manning the Infinity, or the Forward Unto Dawn, or the Pillar of Autumn, or any other vessel in the UNSC fleet. Without the Crews, Spartans would never be able to reach their intended destinations to serve. The same should be noted here and i am glad to see that accommodations for those very important individuals has been made. Lets see that we can do to use this "inch" to the best of the communities ability and if there are items of note where members are not being served we can engage and enact positive change through process.

 

[FANGS]

geek I'm think about setting up a forum that well have to fill out to request approval to events prop shipments and other small things because by what I'm understand each reg has to get approval from one another before they can even make a move which is going to turn pax and dragon con sign up in to a FUBAR events because it will take to long to get approval.

foxleader - I'm not at all sure what you're saying here. Can you explain so I can help sort out whatever FUBAR you think is going to happen?

 

[foxleader]

I mean either the southern or western regs are going to get over ran by requests by members of the other regs unless they send a full report on who's going in armor and who's support staff. and as of right now I've got two props that go to our canadian reg member noble 10 and by the way the rules you've posted we have to file a request to send them, which means the reg leader would have to wait on a responds from the other leader before I can send them off. or does the prop section have free rights to keep doing what we've been doing.

and fang if its going to remain the same for prop builds aka support staff can we get some rights that would protect us, because Alabama right now doesn't have that many member, closes one I have is dr.codwell and the others are two hours away and I don't feel like driving two hours both ways

 

[Cadet]

geek I'm think about setting up a forum that well have to fill out to request approval to events prop shipments and other small things because by what I'm understand each reg has to get approval from one another before they can even make a move which is going to turn pax and dragon con sign up in to a FUBAR events because it will take to long to get approval.

Actually, the planning for Dragon Con is going relatively smoothly:
http://www.405th.com/f17/dragon-con-parade-2015-a-43975/

I know that the Regional Regiment sections are "Read Only" to everyone else and post-able in only by Regimental Members, which I have noticed may cause some difficulties with members attempting to attend an event in a different Regiment, but at least for right now we do have the separate "Conventions" sub forum that is post-able in by all members. So if the Event Coordinator/Point Person thinks ahead and knows that it is a larger event, they can make sure to post a thread there, for outside members, while also maintaining a thread in their respective Regiments section for additional planning:
http://www.405th.com/conventions-prop-parties/

If an event is in another Regiment, I'm pretty sure all you'll have to do is send a PM or email to the Event Cordinator/Point fo Contact for that event and go "Hey, I'm [Your Name Here] from [Your Regiment Here], and I was planning on coming to this event."

Also, seriously, as Art pointed out, the best way to change someone's mind, or to get them to take you seriously, is to make clear, concise posts with sound reasoning and logic. Passion and enthusiasm have their place, but over the top hyperbolic posts filled with meme or video game centric references with caustic language will do little to engender sympathy to your point of view. This is not a chat room, you can take your time and be patient with replies. You are communicating through a text based medium, and becuase of that, all people have to go on is what you type and how you type it.

 

[Jason 078]

I am actually liking the three-tier system for costume levels, but believe it should be made into a four-tier system: Easy, Normal, Hard, Legendary. I believe it should follow a point system in regards to the various costumes and/or styles of construction.

For armors, each item that is included is worth one point. The more points you accrue, the better the level you reach. However, you must also beat a minimum score to qualify. As long as an item is included and consistent across the entire costume it is considered one point.

Pepakura Armor Build (5 points total)
*Properly hardened
*Mountains/valleys evened where necessary (i.e. if a place is supposed to be smooth, the mountain or valley is shaved down/filled in)
*Rounded (i.e. Bondo added and round parts are made round)
*Smoothed/textured (i.e. sanded smooth and/or has detail lines etched in).
*Battle damage (i.e. actual battle damage added to the build through either build-up or sand down)

Paint Details (5 points total)
*Armor is painted appropriately
*Armor includes secondary colored details
*Armor includes decals
*Armor is weathered appropriately through layers or other methods
*Armor includes battle damage in the paint details.

Other things like this that includes visors (smooth, convex, detailed screen, etc.), lights, cloth costumes, and other details. Things like this will encourage a costumer to increase their skills to reach a higher level. It also falls into the typical costume mantra: A costume is never finished, just in a perpetual upgrade.

Easy is the minimum level for membership and requires at least 1 point in each category.
Normal requires at least 2 points in each category.
Hard requires at least 3 points in each category.
Legendary requires at least 4 points in each category.

At this point, you can also include a Mythic level for meeting all points in each category.

 

[Ghost Bear 027]

The points and tiers stuff sounds lame, but I guess that is where we want to go as a community. I'll keep making my own custom stuff, keep up with the forum for inspiration an great advice from people who aren't so full of themselves they must put others down, and keep customizing to how I would want to be as a spartan. There are enough Master Chiefs. I love the variety we've seen in the novels and games like Reach, and even the various ODST suits in that game. If the 405th doesn't want to recognize my love for the Halo universe and my dedication to making something well just because it isn't the exact shade of blue, well that's cool I guess.

 

[Ashuraa]

Guys, we haven't started nailing down the details for the costumes. We are still working on that. Now, with that I can say that at this time there are no plans on being so strict with the rules that you can't have alevel of customization. Will it mean that someone with. a well modified Rubies armor will not be considered? Honestly, if they did customization and it is good then they will likely be given a tier 1classification. I cannot say for sure, but that is how Ihave read where we are. going. It does mean though that a crossover tutued-StarTrek-Warhammer-Spartain will not be given approval as a deployed armor. If that is what you want to make great. Please. do. so. We would. love to see it. Just don't expect it to gain you deployed status within the 405th.

 

[MyrHerder]

That actually sounds right to me. From what I've read, the mantle still allows Troopers, Marines, Dress Whites, etc, they just have to be accurate enough to pass as in-universe. As we've seen in the anime, there are more than just olive green Mjolnir Spartans. The point of the tiers isn't to restrict creativity, it's to inspire quality and accuracy within the canon. I'm using this opportunity to drive myself to finish my custom Trooper and then continuously improve on it.

Side note: is this a copy/paste mistake, or do Regiment officers really manage Battalion member info?
"Regiment Membership Officer (RMO)
Responsible for reviewing official member costume compliance
Oversees Battalion member information"

 

[Art Andrews]

Think that is probably a copy and paste issue.

 

[Art Andrews]

The points and tiers stuff sounds lame, but I guess that is where we want to go as a community. I'll keep making my own custom stuff, keep up with the forum for inspiration an great advice from people who aren't so full of themselves they must put others down, and keep customizing to how I would want to be as a spartan. There are enough Master Chiefs. I love the variety we've seen in the novels and games like Reach, and even the various ODST suits in that game. If the 405th doesn't want to recognize my love for the Halo universe and my dedication to making something well just because it isn't the exact shade of blue, well that's cool I guess.

I am curious as to where your misplaced animosity is coming from since there has been zero mention of "not recognizing your love for Halo" or exclusion based on color choice. This seems more like a generalized attack where you have imagined yourself a victim instead of a genuine concern about the approach we are taking.

 

[foxleader]

guy guys a got an anwers to where we're going.

[video]https://youtu.be/Z0GFRcFm-aY[/video]

but I feel fine.

 

[Chernobyl]

Alright - I'm no true staff member, so I don't have any sort of administrative or moderation capacity, but the next person to start slinging negativity about all of this is going to find my platform ensconced squarely inside their Type 1 - Rectal Group Housing.

I understand that people have misgivings about the new system. I do as well, and I've famously brought my concerns to bear in the past - but, if you have a concern with the system, the way to go about it is not to be rude, abrasive, snide or dismissive. Be constructive, voice your concerns in a calm and pleasant manner, and do your best to remain level-headed. Getting irate and slinging mud about is only going to make people take you less seriously, and jeopardise your membership within this community.

It really isn't difficult to remain pleasant when dealing with your concerns - remember, the staff here are people too, we don't appreciate being grouched at. A little patience goes an incredibly long way. And if you really can't formulate your concerns in a reasonable manner, I'd ask you to step away from the computer. Go play some video games, scream into a pillow - whatever cools you down. Just... please. Don't enter into heated discussion. It serves nobody any good and it'll only end up seeing you dismissed from the forums - just look at Zaff as a prime example.

So, for your sake, and the sake of my boot - play nice.

 

[Ghost Bear 027]

I just don't think there are standards set as to how the tiers are established and people's expectations (and a dislike for how unwelcoming the feel of the 501st is to newcomers) are leading to a lot of negative conclusions. Just last weekend at PAX East I was honored to sit on a panel representing the 405th speaking specifically about what I had learned making helmets, and during discussion people really liked the open and community focused nature of the organization. Especially those who were familiar with the 501st.

I think we need much more specific information on what will be expected/ required. We have people in the Colonial Regiment with great armor, but custom non- "game accurate" helmets that still look very Spartenesque. Are they going to be welcome or do they need to adopt a specific character and become them instead of being themselves? I make helmets myself, and that's it for now. Am I still going to be a welcome an respected member if that is all I do or if my designs are from the concept art and therefore not game accurate?

Art, it's your show, do as you see fit. If it doesn't work, you'll see it in the numbers. A lot of us are concerned that this will become a snobby elitist sort of group that intimidates newcomers and not only discourages their joining but may push current members away who represent the 405th well who joined for the community and not the status.

 

[Chernobyl]

I just don't think there are standards set as to how the tiers are established and people's expectations (and a dislike for how unwelcoming the feel of the 501st is to newcomers) are leading to a lot of negative conclusions.

Once the Mantle is officially in place you're going to see a lot more information about how things are going to work. I share some of your concerns, and I hope to see them addressed myself, but we're going to have to take things one step at a time - before we can even begin to grade members on their outfits, we need to have the structure in place to receive them.

I think we need much more specific information on what will be expected/ required. We have people in the Colonial Regiment with great armor, but custom non- "game accurate" helmets that still look very Spartenesque. Are they going to be welcome or do they need to adopt a specific character and become them instead of being themselves?

As far as I'm aware, only universe-accurate outfits will be formally graded. However, I'm willing to admit that I honestly don't know how the procedure is going to work, and that I'm only making an assumption based on what I've seen spoken about. With that said, however, it's been constantly emphasised that non-canon builds will still gain some form of recognition - we're not about to simply toss out the non-canon builds with the dishwater.

I make helmets myself, and that's it for now. Am I still going to be a welcome an respected member if that is all I do or if my designs are from the concept art and therefore not game accurate?

See above - there are plans in place to ensure that members without outfits are still recognised for their input. While it's true that you might not see as much attention at conventions for that work, your work will still be recognised highly by the community.

Art, it's your show, do as you see fit. If it doesn't work, you'll see it in the numbers. A lot of us are concerned that this will become a snobby elitist sort of group that intimidates newcomers and not only discourages their joining but may push current members away who represent the 405th well who joined for the community and not the status.

Again, see above. The emphasis here is to encourage members to strive for high-quality outfits, definitely - but, yet again, we're not doing that at the expense of the normal members who might not be able to work on armour. Pretty much the Mantle can be summed up as 'make awesome armour, but don't worry if you can't'.

 

[Ashuraa]

Ghost Bear 027 Honestly Chernobyl got many of the statements in their above post correct.

We as staff are not even looking into formalizing the details of what will be required for a costume to be deployed yet. We are getting into place the structure of where the members will go first. We are building a completely new beast with this club. It is something that the 405th has never done before officially. Now, the Pacific and the Australian regiments have been around for some time. Yes they could use the 405th name officially at cons because they managed to get permission from the old managers of the 405th. We have taken that into account. We also recognize that there is no way for the 405th to ever be as strict as the 501st in that all costumes must be movie accurate to specific characters. We are also not teh 501st, the rebel leagion, the mandolorian mercs. All of those groups are great groups of people. One of the things that we are doing that is massively different is that we are recognising those who assist teh regiments, even if they do not have an outfit. They will still be considered active, visable members of teh 405th. They will be able to go to a con and wear their 405th tee shirt, or 405th button, and state proudly that they are members of the 405th.


We will be doing our best to make the rules clear, concise, consistent, and fair. We will be looking into what we can do for custom characters, such as Mister Chief. Mister Chief is not in any game, nor is he in any book, but he has a defined, recognized place in the Halo world. Same with the tutued spartan. Is all of this going to be easy to define, and make fair? No, very much so.

That is why we are tackling things in smaller steps, so that things can evolve and be more the club the community wants, than us just popping up with everything and saying, 'This is the way it will be." That is so very much not how we want this to go. Each step, while smaller is still huge amounts of work, conversations, and then input from the community that we then discuss more. We have shown that we are willing to listen to reasoned, well put concerns, arguments, and such.

Will you be allowed to have custom paint jobs? More then likely yes. Will you be able to wear , as I stated above, a weird crossover mix? No. Will only the human costumes be accepted? Nope, we will be getting the things set up for the grunts, the covenent, the forerunners as well.

If you can give us time to get the regiments in place, then we can start talking heavily about what will make a deployed member's costume approved. Many of the armors I have seen on this site though, personally, most of you who have completed suits, cloth uniforms, anything completed really would be given deployed status. Now that is my personal opinion there.

 

[Chernobyl]

We will be doing our best to make the rules clear, concise, consistent, and fair. We will be looking into what we can do for custom characters, such as Mister Chief. Mister Chief is not in any game, nor is he in any book, but he has a defined, recognized place in the Halo world. Same with the tutued spartan. Is all of this going to be easy to define, and make fair? No, very much so.

The issue here is mainly in how we're going to be dealing with 'non-canon' builds. It's going to be very difficult to draw the line between what's allowed and what's not - for example, we could argue that Red vs Blue builds could be defined as canon, or that concept Spartans drawn from pre-release concept art might be technically canon. However, with all of that considered, it's a very tricky line, since you're allowing the debate to be opened for further arguments - I'm sure we're all dreading the "Well, you allowed that build, so why not mine?" debate. I, personally, am not looking forward to that particular headache.

Everything hinges on how far we want to go with allowing non-canon builds. I would personally argue that any pre-release concept builds might qualify, but purely fan-made concepts wouldn't. It's a certain shame to say 'no, we're not going to allow custom material' but a line of quality control has to be in place to ensure we don't end up with ridiculously off-canon builds.

 

[RobTC]

Seems like the obvious definition of "canon" is "any character or design produced by, or generated from, official Bungie and 343 Industries products and content, and/or unofficial Bungie/343i employee portfolio work directly related to the Halo franchise".

That includes every possible non-game "sort of canon" option described above as well as allowing the argument "well I found this on Character_Artist_Here's LinkedIn profile and he made it whilst working on Halo 4 at 343i but it was rejected early on and never released on the blog or in extra features so it's not official but it's awesome and should be allowed" (which seems agreeable) whilst eliminating the argument "well this is a Destiny design but it's made by this chick who also worked on Halo Reach and the UNSC-style design values are similar" (which is a slippery slope in terms of design language, but as a Destiny design it's not "directly related" to Halo so it's out).

In other words, everyone gets to do whatever they want as long as it's Halo-based. More studios may need adding to the "whitelist" for ports and stuff (Halo for PC, Halo Wars, whatever, if they have extra character work).

 

[Art Andrews]

Chernobyl and Ashuraa have both nailed where we are at, what we are doing and how we are proceeding.
Ghost Bear 027 you expressed a concern about there not being standards set for the tiers. You are 100% right. There aren't standards yet. We simply haven't gotten that far. Our approach has been to construct a very loose, overall framework that includes the broad goals we wan to achieve with the club. Now, we are going back and implementing each part, brick by brick, detailing and refining as we go. It is not unlike an artist creating a painting; first you make a rough sketch and then you begin filling in the large patches and finally you add the details.

One of the most important steps early steps for us is to get local representation and local oversight in place; which is why we are running elections first.... and if you have been following that process, as concerns have come up, such as who could vote and who could not, when convincing arguments have been made, we have gone back and made modifications. While we aren't a democracy (or a Republic) this IS a group process and we expect the rest of the shaping of the Mantle to continue to be a group process.

The most common concern that we are seeing expressed is one of exclusion. Everyone is worried that they are going to be shut out. There are two things to consider here: 1) Club ARE exclusionary. If anyone tells you anything else, they aren't being truthful. By their very nature clubs do not allow certain members.... but, before you start lighting the torches and handing out pitchforks, consider this: from both a business and community standpoint, what value is there in driving people away or excluding them? The answer? None at all. It is not our goal to exclude, but at the same time, if there are no standards set or just anyone could join simply by wanting to, what purpose does the club serve? This is a delicate balance that I am sure will have to be revisited numerous times, but Chernobyl summed it up very well in saying:

"The emphasis here is to encourage members to strive for high-quality outfits, definitely - but, yet again, we're not doing that at the expense of the normal members who might not be able to work on armour. Pretty much the Mantle can be summed up as 'make awesome armour, but don't worry if you can't'."

We do want to push members to push themselves and to expand their skillsets. We want them to strive for greater and greater things and reward those who achieve, but at the same time, it is incredibly important to us to always have a hand out to help those who need it and to encourage those who are just getting started; NOT to constantly make them feel like they are not good enough or haven't done enough. It is about a community striving to raise its game. One of the best parts of this is that we have a liberty that groups like the 501st don't have. Due to its multiplayer customization, Halo allows for virtually an infinite amount of customization, which means, countering someone's previous argument, we don't care what shade of blue you use for your armor. Our focus will be more centered on overall build quality and completeness than on specific details. Of course, if you want to move up the tiers, the requirements will become tougher and it SHOULD be hard to reach that final level... if it weren't, what would be the point? The important thing is that whether you are Legend level Deployed member or just signed up yesterday, as a community, we want to be inviting and welcoming.