405th versus 501st

[JediFraz]

Whilst yes a lot of the pep at the moment is of low quality much of this is using old files from Halo 2. With the great new work of Flying Squirl, DF4L, Slyfo etc I expect to see the overall quality of Pep work to rise as well.

I take exception to that. Before I posted the H2 ingame models as paperkura models there were three options.

1. Buy a pull of the armour from someones sculpt
2. Sculpt or make your own armour, or.
3. Forget the whole thing.

What everbody seems to forget it that the H2 paperkura models were a proof of concept. They proved that it was possible to make easily relatively replicated accurate armour. As a Base to start from.

The H2 models were only ever intended as a base to ensure the basic proportions of the armour were correct. People who made Paperkura armour without glassing, sanding and detailing to accurise it to the readily available reference material wern't making accurate armour. They were making imitations of the Mjolnir armour we all like so much.

The fact that people are running with the idea I raised does nothing but please me. Every member who posts a more accurate file brings the standard of armour higher. However, Making super detailed Paperkura armour is still only the first step. There's still a road to be walked before the armour can be submitted.

The final completed armour is what should be checked. And only that. Whether it's made from fibreglass. Vacformed plastic or paperkura is irrelevant. If the final armour is judged to be accurate to the reference materials. It passes. Case closed.

Whilst Im on the subject...

While I agree, in theory, on approving people's costumes. Utmost care must be taken in every case to remember that the person submitting armour has put substantial amounts of time, effort and usually money into it. They are deserving of some consideration because of that.
It is very easy to be dismissive of someone else's efforts if they don't happen to measure up. Care must be taken that our group does not get arrogant simply because our costume checks are more stringent than other groups.

Whether they made each part by hand or bought sections. Respect the time and effort spent on it. There's usually something of value in every costume. Even if it's only how ingenious they were making it.

Sorry. Rant over.

 

[Vader]

The final completed armour is what should be checked. And only that. Whether it's made from fibreglass. Vacformed plastic or paperkura is irrelevant. If the final armour is judged to be accurate to the reference materials. It passes. Case closed.

Whilst Im on the subject...

While I agree, in theory, on approving people's costumes. Utmost care must be taken in every case to remember that the person submitting armour has put substantial amounts of time, effort and usually money into it. They are deserving of some consideration because of that.
It is very easy to be dismissive of someone else's efforts if they don't happen to measure up. Care must be taken that our group does not get arrogant simply because our costume checks are more stringent than other groups.

I agree - standards are good if they are used to help potential members make their stuff better. But too often it ends up being a situation where you can't join unless you have specific pieces made by certain members. I've seen cardboard stuff that was way classier than some ABS and Fiberglass stuff out there. If there are standards, they should be applied to the final product, not the materials involved. If someone isn't allowed to join, they should be given pointers to improve it - not e-mails to vendors. Or, a probationary period. "We'll let you join for 90 days provided you make these changes to your costume: ... ... ..."

I've been involved with a few costuming groups and far too often it becomes an elitist organization. I don't dig that. The kids I'm trying to help don't care if I'm using wool or a poly-cotton blend cape. They don't care if my chestbox is ROTS but my gloves are ROTJ. I guess what I'm saying is that when we do an event, people aren't going to walk away complaining that we didn't use leather undersuits. They're going to remember getting their picture taken with that Halo dude. And as long as we treat our events with a professionalism, then Bungie may just back us after all.

I am working hard to make a Spartan costume. I really want to do it, and I would love to be part of the 405th. But in the end, my ass doesn't belong to the 405th. I was owned by the military for a time, and I'll be damned if I take orders from a bunch of freaks in costumes I say that light-hearted, but seriously, the second this starts being a chore or stops being fun is the day my stuff ends up on e-bay. Believe that.

 

[Primal Weyland]

The second this starts being a chore or stops being fun is the day my stuff ends up on e-bay. Believe that.

Quote for massive truth.

As far as I'm concerned, what are we even whining about with 'standards'? As long as we have a guy kicking around in armor that looks decent (if not excellent) then why are we complaining?

I'd like to repeat: we're not the 501st. We shouldn't even try to be.

I've been working on a few experimental pepakura helms, and from what I see both of my own creation and the improved files being provided, there's no reason that a little care and time can't produce armor pieces that match up to or even surpass moulded armors. We're handing decent armors to new people on platters, so to speak, by giving them practically everything they need for an armor set save for actually doing the armors for them ourselves.

And why... WHY, would we even want to begin turning people away because they don't meet up to demanding standards? So what if the armor was made using card? Or maybe has a few tiny bits out of place? Or isn't the exact olive green?

As far as I care, I'm here to have fun. Armor before attitude. And as soon as we try to be someone we're not, we forget that.

 

[Sinjinsmiley]

I take exception to that. Before I posted the H2 ingame models as paperkura models there were three options.

1. Buy a pull of the armour from someones sculpt
2. Sculpt or make your own armour, or.
3. Forget the whole thing.

What everbody seems to forget it that the H2 paperkura models were a proof of concept. They proved that it was possible to make easily relatively replicated accurate armour. As a Base to start from.

The H2 models were only ever intended as a base to ensure the basic proportions of the armour were correct. People who made Paperkura armour without glassing, sanding and detailing to accurise it to the readily available reference material wern't making accurate armour. They were making imitations of the Mjolnir armour we all like so much.

Sorry to cause offence, I meant none when I said it and I have nothing but respect for you for bringing Pepakura to the masses.

I recognize that it has always been possible to make a great looking suit from any Pepakura model but what I meant was that the new models, inspired by your work, allow even those who don't want to do much extra work to have an almost professional looking suit.

Sorry for going a bit off topic just had to rectify what I said.

 

[JediFraz]

Not a problem mate..

 

[Spartan 270]

Nope, no armorless noobs on the 501st forums since you must be a member to get into them and you must have movie grade armor or Imp uniforms in production.

Exactly, you need to be "perfect" to join them. Im not saying they're bad or anything, Im just saying their rules are more strict. In the 405th you don't need like super special crazy perfect shining armor to join. It just needs to be acceptable.

 

[rvb4life]

I have wanted to be in the 501st for about a year now, since i got battlefront 2, but when i wanted to join, i looked, and it said 18 or older. If im a star wars fan and i want to join, dont i have a right? plus, if im gonna buy some armor, i would rather use my parent's money . around halloween when i was looking for some pepakura stuff i came across this website, and was SHOCKED at the time and detail you guys spent making your armor, plus, it was just a forum! i could join, and now at 16, im proud to be in the 405th. this is a judgement free zone, and i get criticism on how crappy my armor looks, so i base it off of that, and i dont get kicked out for my poor quality.

sure, the 501st has been around for about ten years. its STAR WARS! everyone loves star wars! but how many people like halo compared to SW? im not dissing halo, because i would gladly choose an energy sword over a lightsaber.

sorry to be so long and extensive, but stop dissing the 501st, because there are more of them then there are of us, plus most of us are underage, and they can kick our butts. give them the respect they deserve.

on one final note, we need to be nationally known. get bungie and microsoft's attention, to say that we are here, and we want your support! the star wars fans take their costuming passionately, and so do we. lets be their supersoldier counterparts, and make them see that the 405th is here to stay.

405th 4 LIFE!!!!!


thank you.

 

[jehktrooper]

yup your right... alot of rules before you could join, but its the company, the same interest is what makes it special...

 

[charlie tuna]

I have wanted to be in the 501st for about a year now, since i got battlefront 2, but when i wanted to join, i looked, and it said 18 or older. If im a star wars fan and i want to join, dont i have a right? plus, if im gonna buy some armor, i would rather use my parent's money . around halloween when i was looking for some pepakura stuff i came across this website, and was SHOCKED at the time and detail you guys spent making your armor, plus, it was just a forum! i could join, and now at 16, im proud to be in the 405th. this is a judgement free zone, and i get criticism on how crappy my armor looks, so i base it off of that, and i dont get kicked out for my poor quality.

sure, the 501st has been around for about ten years. its STAR WARS! everyone loves star wars! but how many people like halo compared to SW? im not dissing halo, because i would gladly choose an energy sword over a lightsaber.

sorry to be so long and extensive, but stop dissing the 501st, because there are more of them then there are of us, plus most of us are underage, and they can kick our butts. give them the respect they deserve.

on one final note, we need to be nationally known. get bungie and microsoft's attention, to say that we are here, and we want your support! the star wars fans take their costuming passionately, and so do we. lets be their supersoldier counterparts, and make them see that the 405th is here to stay.

405th 4 LIFE!!!!!
thank you.

Couldn't you talk to the local group and see if you could be an unoffical member for a couple years, in that time you could be piecing together your Imp costume and you can pick up general costuming tips and info.

 

[CMANavy]

At some events there have been underaged troopers. Either you have to have permission from a parent or they have to be there. If you up around us and had a suit we sure would let you troop but you could not officaly join untill you hit 18.

 

[BishopX]

I think that the 405th attracts only game enthusiasts at the moment since a movie has not seen the screen yet. Once the movie is released, you will have an entirely new crop of fans. Star Wars has been around for 30 years and IS the most popular movie series in the world. Star Wars fan base is HUGE. Star Wars is in this world until the end of time at this point. You will never be able to remove it from our everyday vocabulary.

Armor availability is a key factor. Once more armor is available and a standard for the costuming is set, acquiring armor will not be such an insurmountable task.

Legal Licensing/Copyright Issues. Obviously, MS and Bungie are not in tune with fans like Lucasfilm is. They may never be. The 501st is an organized "do good" group that focuses a lot on charities. "Organized" is the key word. They have set many requirements initially before you can join and then have rules that you must follow to maintain your membership and their reputation as a group. These rules make it much more acceptable to Lucasfilm. They essentially look the other way as far as costume production is concerned because the 501st is an essential publicity tool that is usually free of charge. Lucasfilm costumes do not look nearly as good as the fan stuff and they do not need to hire a costuming department for events.

I think for the 405th to become as popular as the 501st, you will need the following:

1. Movie release and the movie not sucking
2. Armor available / affordable / easy to build
3. 405th Organization / Hierarchy
4. MS / Bungie approval of 405th existence / production of costumes <--- even if they just look the other way

I don't think that these things are unattainable but it will be a long difficult road to get there. The key to existing will be approval from MS and Bungie. That will be a tough one.

Just my opinion on the matter.

I hope we get there someday.

 

[RHunterVF1S]

Hey Guys,

Did you know that the 501st is recongnized by Ole' George Lucas? And yes the 501st does alot of charity work. I have friends that are close with Albion who started the 501st and he is a great guy. The charity work was started by the group when albion announced that his daughter had cancer. The 501st as a whole rose up and helped out his family and alot of other people through their action. Katie has now passed, but the group keeps on their charity work in her absence.

BTW, i didnt read anything hateful towards the 501st in any of the other post. I think it is good that this group would like to bring itself to a level like that. Also, the 501st doesnt give out armor, but star wars stuff is alot easier to find and get then halo stuff and there are so many kits that have just been made that are recast of someone elses kit. the trooper armor is kinda basic when you compare it to all the angles and details of the spartan armor too.

I would love to see this group branch off into state garrisons for the members and to have a convention somewhere once a year for everyone to go too. remember a group like this only goes as far as it's members are willing to carry it.

Here is a link to a special collectable that Hasbro did in honor of Katie Johnson (Daughter of the man who started the 501st)

http://www.rebelscum.com/story/front/Hasbr...gure_107662.asp

 

[Dark One]

Another 501st member here. My ID #'s are TD 7013 and TC 7013. I have clone armor, Boba Fett armor, and Darth Maul. Some of the posts on here can be taken as jabs. "We are better" and "MC's would take stormtrooper!!!" and yada, yada, yada. Almost all of the points that have been addressed or brought up have been posted/addressed on other threads. Yes the age limit is 18. It is there for several reasons. It is best summed up in the phrase it "Covers your a$#!" We do have events where under age people attend and yes, some of them even have armor. We don't have a problem with that. In my opinion, the biggest reason is that the 501st is NOT a babysitting service!!!!!!!!! Those that attended the Rose Bowl Parade busted their butts to look as good as they did. I have seen several posts regarding costumes......I do not know many if any under the age of 18 that can afford to pay what several of us have put into our armor. My clone armor $2,000. My fett $1,500 and counting. My Maul $1,200 and counting. So see, to look like the "Real Deal" you have to pay through your nose. The other thing is that until the age of 18, most of you that are under 18 are still growing. Look at what I have paid and think about can you afford a new set of MC armor because when you got that set at 16 you then grew 6 in. and gained 30 lbs???? I saw the post regarding Pep armor and Vacced armor as well. I will have to say that the PEP armor would be nonexistent. There is NO PEP armor in the 501st. It is for the most part, styrene or ABS and sometimes resin/fiberglass. What the 405th has right now is a good start. It will take time for it to grow. It will not happen overnight. I mean come on Star wars has SIX movies and Halo has.........0. If and when Halo gets one it will get more popular. I will do my best to help the 405th. My biggest input will be to assemble the best costume I can. I have a BR bucket. Now the armor is next. That, I think will have the biggest impact on to how this group grows. The appearance and quality of the costumes. There are severl of us 501st people on here. I know we will be glad to help in anyway. The 501st and 405th are different yet the same. WE enjoy running around like giant action figures and making kids and adults smile. That is why I do it anyway..........

 

[charlie tuna]

You forgot to mention that Star Wars has also been around for 30 years, longer than a good deal of the members here have been alive
Several of the 501st bashers here weren't even born when first set came out and others were too young to see the second Death Star go boom and the Empire come to an end. Bungie didn't exist until the late '80s and computers only became powerful enough to run games like Halo so SW has had a multi year head start on Halo fans when it comes to costuming.

ALL Halo has is 3 games, an online presence and some books for costuming references while SW has 6 movies, around a dozen or more games and hundreds of books including a run of comics that ran into the upper 100s so there is a huge pool of reference material to draw on.
Halo costuming is based mostly just the ones in the armor, no supporting characters, no backstory people and no pilots and other fliers all those will have to wait for the movie to show up, whenever that will be. Bad guy costuming will be limited to those few well skilled folks that can build
critters that make wookies look short
The group here will just have to live with the fact that the 501st is bigger and has been around a lot longer and such will always be the case.

This whole 405th vs 501st is like the ST vs SW arugument that's been going on forever and is just as pointless since the universes are too different to make a decent comparison so let's knock off the 'us v them' and accept the help that 'them' can provide since they have been at it longer

 

[Rankmastachief]

Santa please bring me one of those storm trooper hotties for Christmas

We need a Spartan Hottie!!!

With regards to the 501st. Yeah they got years on us (SFW), but imitation is the best form of compliment. Follow their lead, build our troops, and get our fecal matter consolidated to make it happen.

If you can't afford a nice set of armour, get a job and save your money. That, or run up a credit card.

Lets get official, lets meet at Dragon Con and / or Comic Con, and lets have a Spartan parade. LETs GIT R DUN.

 

[Panton6]

if we do become as cool as 501st i wonder how we will be able to meet, because not all of us are adults yet, some of us are just kids.....
and a lot of us live far away from each other

 

[JediFraz]

That's the point they are trying to make.
Making a set of armour is a long term commitment, Both in time and money.

Im not saying kids can't make that commitment, but how long until the next big game comes along? I have already heard about people wanting to make Mass effect armour or Big daddy costumes...

Every year, round about Halloween, we get swamped by new members who want a 'Masdar cheef suit.'

We need to concentrate in getting a solid member base, something that will last.

 

[kerotan 36]

i wanna help in any way against the 501st even if it means rushing myelf and finish my armors in a month for a con just to show up those 501st people

 

[rsitumeang]

we need a lot of spartans to do a parade like in the videos

 

[sk8er4life]

I would rather have MC that trooper or clone. MC is fresh and that is way older! im all fresh!