Hello 405th I know its been a long time since I've been on and i am just posting this to thank everyone including " venture " and "Spitfire22v" thank you all so much for helping me figure out fiberglassing and how to use body filler.... I'm now proud to anounce that thanks to these people i have successfully made my first helmet ( which is a recon helmet and it turned out great, still haven't finished painting but close to done) Thanks once again =D
"Help!" for: Fiberglassing, Resin, & Bondo
- Thread starter 23Magnum
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Friday, July 8th, 2011.
To all who is looking for a good deal on supplies, you may want to go to Harbor Freight Tools. I went there to browse for tools and found these.
$10 for 36 brushes. It even says for fiberglassing.
While there, pick up a box of 100 gloves for $7 too.
To all who is looking for a good deal on supplies, you may want to go to Harbor Freight Tools. I went there to browse for tools and found these.
$10 for 36 brushes. It even says for fiberglassing.
While there, pick up a box of 100 gloves for $7 too.
Darkrider9
Well-Known Member
I just hardened a thigh piece and I was wondering how hard it should be, it's pretty solid but one area can be pushed in a tiny bit if I press hard enough. Should I harden it more? The piece is already really heavy from all of the rondo.
Also, when you seal of one side while rondoing, how do you get it off when the rondo is done, take a dremel to it or is there an easier way to get it off?
Also, when you seal of one side while rondoing, how do you get it off when the rondo is done, take a dremel to it or is there an easier way to get it off?
Like you said if you press hard enough. It won't break unless you fall on it. To make you sleep better, you can apply bondo on the outside. That will help put more strength to it.
Any rondo or bondo you need to take off you can use light pressure using dremel. Nothing beats a diamond tip cutting disk.
That would have been the BackyardFX video with SkullcandyGirl. She's also written something about Aqua-Resin here.
Basically, strength isn't really that much of a concern. You're not building a spaceship, so it won't matter if it's the strongest material you can possibly find and if it's not strong enough, you can always just add more layers. The big advantage of the material is that it's completely non-toxic and that will be the main selling point if you think about using it, not strength.
Got it Ventrue.
U're right, I dont wanna anything very strong but just wanted to know if they are similar. Well. the link u sent already helped a lot.
Telling the true, my problem is the smell. I live in an apartment and dont have an opened air place to resin it, so ... aque resin is what it fits.
Tks.
U're right, I dont wanna anything very strong but just wanted to know if they are similar. Well. the link u sent already helped a lot.
Telling the true, my problem is the smell. I live in an apartment and dont have an opened air place to resin it, so ... aque resin is what it fits.
Tks.
hello 405th I was wondering I was looking at how to make rondo and how to use it and I was wondering is it possible to rondo the outside of your helmet ( before i just used body filler but it was a pain to make smooth and to sand ) so I was wondering would rondo make a difference..... and if so do you just paint it on like resin, and also would it make a difference when it came to smoothness, and sanding?
So i've looked around on the forum and some other sites about using rondo(resin+bondo mixture). My question is if i were to replace the glassing method and just use rondo on the inside how thick would i have to layer it to achieve the same strength as 3 or 4 layers of glassing. Also say i put a layer of fiberglass in there before rondoing, then how much would i need?
Starvinartist80
Well-Known Member
You will never really be able to achieve the same strength of fiberglass with rondo. Well not in a practical way. You would need enough layers that a small piece would end up 5-6 pounds by itself. This is because of the strength provided by the woven glass fibers. The interlocking fibers provide a tensil strength that a paste just cannot match.
There is a middle ground between the time consuming fiberglass method and the weaker Rondo. I've been using the Bondo brand product called BondoGlass. It is basically bondo with chopped up glass fibers mixed in. The chopped fibers do not interlock as much as a woven fabric but they do significantly increase the tensil strength of Rondo. The real trade off here is the weight. Bondoglass is definately heavier than fiberglass and depending on how thick you apply it, it may end up heavier than standard bondo.
Also because of the glass fibers, it does not slush as thin as regular bondo. That can make you think your using more material, but it only takes one even coat to achieve 10 times as much strength as two or three coats of standard rondo. So really you will probably use less in the long run.
Every method has its ups and downs. There is no one right way and unfortunately the only way to know which is best for you is to try them all.
Spitfire22V
Well-Known Member
If you apply a layer of fiberglass, then there's no point in adding Rondo over that. The entire point of Rondo was to be a little quicker and easier than fiberglass, with the trade-off of being less strong. As Starvinartist said, fiberglass is so strong due to it's directional fibers, whereas Rondo tends to be brittle since it has no such structure.
Hmm. Thinner, lighter, stronger fiberglass versus thicker, heavier, weaker "rondo." Is that actually a choice? I've never seen any positives for this rondo method. You can explain it to me every which way, but as a seasoned prop builder, I can tell you that at every turn (and in the end), I'm going to prefer the lighter, stronger fiberglass over anything that ads weight. That goes for any stage of building the thing and while wearing it at a convention (or even just carrying it around). People may claim rondo is quicker, but if you want something to be a quality piece, you're going to be spending a lot of time on it anyways, so go the fiberglass route. People may claim they choose rondo because of toxicity issues, but every component in rondo is toxic (just like pure fiberglass resin, so you're not winning either way), so just use the one toxic material instead of two. I say if you want to be in this hobby for the long run, learn to fiberglass.
Spitfire22V
Well-Known Member
Torsoboy, I completely agree. However, I have to say that I understand the slight advantages of Rondo, mainly that it's a little quicker to apply, and it is useful for hardening in really tight space that would be difficult to fiberglass. I guess for some people, those advantages are enough to make it worthwhile...
I would disagree. There are pros and cons in both method. I suggest that you use both method. With fiberglass you cannot reach the crevices. Try as you might, you will miss a spot or two. If you accidently drop your helmet (which my son did) and hit the brim (which I did not reach with my fiberglass), you will quickly noticed that it cracks right away.
Here is my solution. Armor pieces that are too small and do not get abused when you wear it, I suggest using rondo. It is a lot quicker. Armor pieces such as the shins and boots, I suggest that you use both methods. First, apply a light coat of rondo. Slush it around in the areas that you know you cannot reach with fiberglass. Next, fiberglass the rest of the area. The pieces may feel a littler heavier, but at least you know you cover every inch of the armor.
Learning to fiberglass means learning to work with the materials. You don't need to coat every single little tiny surface with the fiberglass cloth or mat in order to achieve good strength. If you're going to bother with the HD folding, you can just fill those crevices with fiberglass resin in layers so that by the time you start layering in fiberglass cloth/mat, you're working with a smoother surface. You don't need to have cloth in it. The resin will work perfectly fine on its own. You can even temper it with baby powder or microbulb filler if you want it to be a thicker consistency. Realistically you're not going to have fiberglass cloth backing on any detail parts anyways, as most details should be considered surface treatment only.
When most of us are talking about strength, we're talking about it in a generalized sense in relation to the prop. Any detail is going to crack or chip if you drop it, and it doesn't matter what material you use. Rondo, fiberglass, rotocasting resin... details in any material will be compromised if you drop it. The point of fiberglassing any of this stuff isn't to make the piece a rock hard indestructible piece; rather, the point of doing it is so that the prop as a whole doesn't shatter into a million pieces, or crack unrepairably.
Thinking back on my previous post, while I still hold my position, I think I'd rather not discredit the rondo method. Obviously people are going to do what they want, and they'll like whatever they do for their own reasons. I see no harm in that. But I think the point I'd like to push is that people shouldn't discredit fiberglassing "because it's hard" or "because rondo is easy." I think it's important for people to step out of their comfort zone and learn something with their projects. Even if it's learning how easy fiberglassing can actually be. When I was first learning how to do it 6 or 7 years ago, I think it took maybe one or two castings before I started getting a feel for the materials, and when I switched to FG cloth, I couldn't believe how easy it was to work with. It was one of those after-the-fact epiphanies for me, like "Why was I not doing this sooner?"
When most of us are talking about strength, we're talking about it in a generalized sense in relation to the prop. Any detail is going to crack or chip if you drop it, and it doesn't matter what material you use. Rondo, fiberglass, rotocasting resin... details in any material will be compromised if you drop it. The point of fiberglassing any of this stuff isn't to make the piece a rock hard indestructible piece; rather, the point of doing it is so that the prop as a whole doesn't shatter into a million pieces, or crack unrepairably.
Thinking back on my previous post, while I still hold my position, I think I'd rather not discredit the rondo method. Obviously people are going to do what they want, and they'll like whatever they do for their own reasons. I see no harm in that. But I think the point I'd like to push is that people shouldn't discredit fiberglassing "because it's hard" or "because rondo is easy." I think it's important for people to step out of their comfort zone and learn something with their projects. Even if it's learning how easy fiberglassing can actually be. When I was first learning how to do it 6 or 7 years ago, I think it took maybe one or two castings before I started getting a feel for the materials, and when I switched to FG cloth, I couldn't believe how easy it was to work with. It was one of those after-the-fact epiphanies for me, like "Why was I not doing this sooner?"
Darkrider9
Well-Known Member
My questions were stupid so I found the answers to them myself, sorry.
SkullBoy13
Active Member
hey guys. i dont know if this is possible but can i soften a resin-hardened brush? if yes. how?
JRUSSO8504
New Member
Ok, I'm a noob. So, I've got a question about using rondo do you appy rondo to inside and outside of the Pepakura after I resin it.
Spitfire22V
Well-Known Member
Depends if the resin on the brush has already cured or not. If so, then I don't think it's worth saving. However, if immediately upon finishing using it, you wipe off the excess resin and then soak it in acetone, it can possibly be reused. Of course it won't be as good as a new brush, but it will serve its purpose. I've successfully done this in a pinch if I was running low on brushes.
Neither. Painting is pretty much the last step you do, but there's more than one step after resining before you get to it. You have to harden the piece somehow, either using fiberglass or Rondo. Resin alone won't do it. By the nature of your question, I'd suggest reading up more on the how-to's, tutorials, and Stickied threads around the site to learn more about the general process of Pepakura armor making.
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