alright, so, heaviness obviously being a problem, I've still always been curious as to how to make detailed metal armor, or at least a mold which could be used to create metal pulls.. I've been thinking, and if you could find something with a low freezing point, and extremely high specific heat, you should be able to freeze it over a fiberglass/plastic piece without damaging it... then if you could cut it in half (or have seperators in place before freezing) and then clamp it together (keeping it at whatever low temperature) you SHOULD be able to dump a metal with a high melting point but a low specific heat into it (something like aluminium?) I'm not really a chemist or anything (duh), and this idea might be retarded, if it is, please tear it apart and let a mod lock it or something, but if someone who thinks this idea borders on the remotely rational and gives me a suggestion, I'd love to try it on a plastic gun or something.
metal armor
- Thread starter volkov
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hfcmemberblade
Jr Member
volkov said:
You could try to use a sand casting method to make metal armor. I dont know the full process but I know it is basically like making a plastic mold but you would use a sand mixture again I dont know the composites for it but you use the sand to create a temporary mold and pour the molten metal into once the metal is solid the sand can simply be blown off I know they use this process for molding pistons and engine blocks. As for weight aluminum would be too flimsy might wanna try magnesium.
And thats my .2cents
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I think there's a topic somewhere about this.
Question: Ever wondered why they use fibreglass/aramid on ships and even planes? because
even if you're not a chemist, you _may_ know that there's not many materials that withstand that heat of molten iron (stone, sand, ceramics, and some other exotic stuff) and also that it's a bad idea to cool something and then DUMP a load of red hot stuff in it. temperature difference cracks rocks.
no offence, new ideas are good, but physics kind of limits you to what's a.) possible and b.) practical.
obey gravity, it's the law!
Question: Ever wondered why they use fibreglass/aramid on ships and even planes? because
- It's easier to work with
- It's just as strong/even stronger than steel in some cases
- It's friggin lightweight so the plane can fly!
even if you're not a chemist, you _may_ know that there's not many materials that withstand that heat of molten iron (stone, sand, ceramics, and some other exotic stuff) and also that it's a bad idea to cool something and then DUMP a load of red hot stuff in it. temperature difference cracks rocks.
no offence, new ideas are good, but physics kind of limits you to what's a.) possible and b.) practical.
obey gravity, it's the law!
GarzakAzur
Well-Known Member
I just start some idea and plan to make one but I got the equipement for. I would make only the chest in aluminium in my final school project in december. I know how to weld it and to work it. Im a welder haha 
Pat
Pat
shadow8136
Well-Known Member
dont do it unless u wanna walk around like one of those people in Garry's mod on Half-Life 2
episode 1
episode 2
episode 3
like those ragdolls
like those ragdolls
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Vrogy
Well-Known Member
Hi, thanks for spamming completely unrelated crap. Wait, no.shadow8136 said:
Anyways..
It could be possible to do some parts with cast aluminum(which is not flimsy, BTW).
If I did it I'd probably go with the lost-foam process, so you can CNC the parts out of foam before you cast. 2-part molding is a bitch.
There might be problems, though. One is the thickness of the pieces. You can't cast 1/8" thick parts with a home casting setup, or, I can't.
I do remember seeing a cast light switch plate, probably 3/16" to 1/4" thickness there.
It might be possible, but it'd be a whole hell of a lot of trouble. On the other hand, building up pep with coats upon coats of arcane mixtures and laborious sanding is also a whole hell of a lot of trouble.
Weight might be an issue. Not just that it's be too heavy to move around in- I think you could wear it comfortably for short periods of time- it'd be lighter than steel plate armor- but it'd be heavy enough to be uncomfortable trooping around a con for hours in.
It would be nice to be able to do barrel rolls, crash through underbrush, go sprawling across the ground, etc, without worrying about crushing your armor. Eventually, of course.. there would have to be ballistic tests, too.
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ShadowSniper
Member
I've been working on making an ODST setup on and off now for the last year or so and casting it in aluminum is my ultimate goal there. Been working with the "On the other hand, building up pep with coats upon coats of arcane mixtures and laborious sanding is also a whole hell of a lot of trouble." and have to say that it is a pain. Reason for the question "Why metal?" for me is that I need it to withstand airsofting and I want something that's not going to break on me.
mm thanks for the info vrogy, I might have to research that a little more.. see if there would be away to get around some of the more dificult parts of the processs... or if I can find someone who could help. As cool as fiberglass is, it would be darn cool to have real scratches/weathering on your armor, instead of painted silver.. and even if it was too flimsy, even a small layer of aluminum over fiberglass reinforcement could be really cool (heavy, but cool)
Vrogy
Well-Known Member
wow those sites were very helpfull, especially backyard metal casting, it was the first I clicked and it was very imformatives. It seems that if you could use a sand mold for the outside of the helmet, and then manage to suspend something into the hole it created (that wouldn't melt) you could use that to make sure that there was a hole left for your head when it was all done... of course that leaves the visor to still be cut out, and the helmet wouldn't be completly hollow so much as have a hole in it.. and with the chest/back and a few other plates it would be more difficult.. the wrists and simular parts might be doable as long as you made the mold vertical and planted a tube of the apropriate size firmly in the bottom of the mold to again create the neccesary hole.. Looks like I have a summer project, maybe earlier if I get some free time!
I was watching the discovery channel where they had "How it's made" on, they had metal molding/casting on so I was watching it. They used fine grain sand to make a mold, then they baked or shot it with electricity, I have no clue, but they just said "This process makes the sand rock hard so it doesnt brake"
They poured the liquid metal in and let them sit, after they cooled they dropped the molds several feet so the sand would crack off and the metal casted piece was let out.
I think metal armor can be done if done my a professional in metal casting, but weight will always be an issue and be pointless for a suit of armor to be made using it. No one can do this in their backyard or home, and it will cost thousands of dollars. I think the best of the best will always be plastic molded armor, light weight, lots of detail, cheaper than heating metal until liquefied.
They poured the liquid metal in and let them sit, after they cooled they dropped the molds several feet so the sand would crack off and the metal casted piece was let out.
I think metal armor can be done if done my a professional in metal casting, but weight will always be an issue and be pointless for a suit of armor to be made using it. No one can do this in their backyard or home, and it will cost thousands of dollars. I think the best of the best will always be plastic molded armor, light weight, lots of detail, cheaper than heating metal until liquefied.
Vrogy
Well-Known Member
Hi. It seems you once again have formed an opinion based on.. the discovery channel. Next time, please think and research before you post.
Aluminum is 2.70 g/cc. That's about 1.5 ounces per cubic inch.
If you were to achieve thin-section castings, 1/4" to 3/8" in thickness, it works out to around 1/2oz per square inch of plate.
For rough estimation's sake, let's assume the forearm piece is a hollow cylinder 4" across and 12" long.
That's 48 square inches, 24oz of aluminum, 1.5lb.
I don't think that's too much of a hindrance at all. I know my SCA armor weighs around 50-60 pounds. My father's bunker gear- he's a firefighter- weighs around 80 pounds.
-authenticity
-aesthetics
It will act, age, look, and feel like real armor.
Hell, a few posts ago, I posted a link to a site - http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/ .
He casts metal. In his back yard. Hell, he's got plans for furnaces made out of flowerpots.
There are comparisons between different fuels- but I've walked into the woods, come out with some branches, cut them up and made charcoal, then melted aluminum with it. It doesn't get cheaper. Another fuel option is waste oil from cooking or used motor oil, which you can actually cast iron with.
Scrap aluminum is easy to get- raid recycling bins for soda cans, then crush and melt them. If you're ambitious, get a sledgehammer and you can melt bits of an engine block for months. Casting sand can be made with ground kitty litter and beach sand. Molding frames are cheap wood.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum
Aluminum is 2.70 g/cc. That's about 1.5 ounces per cubic inch.
If you were to achieve thin-section castings, 1/4" to 3/8" in thickness, it works out to around 1/2oz per square inch of plate.
For rough estimation's sake, let's assume the forearm piece is a hollow cylinder 4" across and 12" long.
That's 48 square inches, 24oz of aluminum, 1.5lb.
I don't think that's too much of a hindrance at all. I know my SCA armor weighs around 50-60 pounds. My father's bunker gear- he's a firefighter- weighs around 80 pounds.
-durability
-authenticity
-aesthetics
It will act, age, look, and feel like real armor.
Actually, lots of people have done metal casting at home. In their backyard.
Hell, a few posts ago, I posted a link to a site - http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/ .
He casts metal. In his back yard. Hell, he's got plans for furnaces made out of flowerpots.
There are comparisons between different fuels- but I've walked into the woods, come out with some branches, cut them up and made charcoal, then melted aluminum with it. It doesn't get cheaper. Another fuel option is waste oil from cooking or used motor oil, which you can actually cast iron with.
Scrap aluminum is easy to get- raid recycling bins for soda cans, then crush and melt them. If you're ambitious, get a sledgehammer and you can melt bits of an engine block for months. Casting sand can be made with ground kitty litter and beach sand. Molding frames are cheap wood.
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Vrogy, sounds like you have a very good handle on this, hopefully I'll be able to put the knowledge you've given to good use, I probably won't start for 5 weeks because of college, although I might mess around and experiment a bit, but hopefully with the sources you've provided I can make this happen.. Going to need to look for a better alternative to how I intend to make armor wearable though. I I think the things I said earlier might work, but I want to do this right. Maybe if I could somehow make a mold of the interier to suspend over the sand mold and pour the aluminum between the two.. I'm going to have to build a helm myself too, I don't want to risk my doc's helmet, and I don't have his permission anyway... I might try on a baseball helmet or something for starters
tonsofhoopla
Member
volkov said:
It's a fantastic concept. But freezing it won't do anything, unless it's an extreme temperature which i am sure it still wouldn't do anything.
The Temperature of even a low melt metal would heat it up and destroy it.
So Sand Molding is your best bet. Me and my teacher who also does lots of metal work and construction and is kind of a jack of all trades, has Metal Roto Casted Part and he said it's realtively cheap to build, and metal is easy to come by, you could use scraps, and such. I would get deeper into it and explain but i am tired.
So basically, good idea, just not practical when there are easier already established methods.
-Justin
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tubachris85x
Well-Known Member
Impractical; too heavy
Sean Bradley
Sr Member
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?s=&s...st&p=125014
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?s=&s...ost&p=99421
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?s=&s...ost&p=40382
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?s=&s...ost&p=19411
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?showtopi...;hl=metal+armor
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?showtopi...;hl=steel+armor
Nah, I don't think anyone's thought of this yet.
I don't mean to be negative, in fact I hope that someone proves us all wrong by making a fantastic set of wearable armor. I guess I just wanted to note that many have tried and noone has been sucessful yet.
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?s=&s...ost&p=99421
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?s=&s...ost&p=40382
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?s=&s...ost&p=19411
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?showtopi...;hl=metal+armor
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?showtopi...;hl=steel+armor
Nah, I don't think anyone's thought of this yet.
I don't mean to be negative, in fact I hope that someone proves us all wrong by making a fantastic set of wearable armor. I guess I just wanted to note that many have tried and noone has been sucessful yet.
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