metal armor

[Vrogy]

Impractical; too heavy

Did you read the thread? I broke down the density of aluminum and possible armor weight, and compared it to actual armor that I've worn. Please, lurk more.

http://405th.com/forums/index.php?s=&s...st&p=125014
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?s=&s...ost&p=99421
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?s=&s...ost&p=40382
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?s=&s...ost&p=19411
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?showtopi...;hl=metal+armor
http://405th.com/forums/index.php?showtopi...;hl=steel+armor
Nah, I don't think anyone's thought of this yet.

I don't mean to be negative, in fact I hope that someone proves us all wrong by making a fantastic set of wearable armor. I guess I just wanted to note that many have tried and noone has been sucessful yet.

Loess is still building.

Jace Evans had no idea where to get metal, which tells me he had no idea what he was doing.

'master commander' never followed through.. with much of anything, it seems.

Keegan never posted pics, so I'm guessing that got abandoned.

Arthraxis got discouraged by several different people, and I'm guessing dropped the idea.

'leegrisham' also hasn't done anything, it seems.

It's kind of a funny pattern.. in most of these threads someone explains their idea, people shoot it down, and nothing new is ever built. I'd think part of your role in this community is to encourage builders to build- even if what they're doing isn't the way you'd do it.

 

[volkov]

well, you've been a heck of an encouragement, and rob also wants me to call him about it (I'm in class atm so can't, and I'd like to get some more research done). So maybe we can get this rolling. I don't intend to really start for 5 weeks (end of semester, plus I want to build the nz-tk/sigma unfolded mkV helm, heck if it's good I'll use it for my mold.. if it isn't I probably will anyway for practice) but i think I'm going to start gathering the materials and creating the crucible and furnace. Seems pretty strait forward, create a sand mold, melt aluminum in and dump it in... Think I might buy a book from backyardfurnace for a little more info. And I still need to find a way to make the end product hollow, instead of an armor brick... Just need to figure out how to get an inner layer and then suspend it in the mold and have it stay still so it doesn't rest on the main mold and make half of a lopsided piece of armor... (maybe a sand mold suspended in the main sand mold?) on the upside I have tons of aluminium cans between me and my three roomates so that shouldn't be a problem. plus I actually have an extra empty keg core if I need it, but it makes a good table so will try not to use it


edit: on second thought, I will probably not try it on a helmet first, since a sand mold isn't flexible it would have to be done in a few parts, thanks to the parts of a helmet that stick out, which adds a lot of complication, so I'll try something less shaped, maybe a wristguard? the other advantage of something like wristguard is you could make the inner and outer molds easily to keep it hollow without having to suspend the inner one, unlike a helmet.. I've got some ideas for a helmet mold, but they involve welding, I'd rather the first part be easier.

 

[Keegan]

Did you read the thread? I broke down the density of aluminum and possible armor weight, and compared it to actual armor that I've worn. Please, lurk more.
Loess is still building.

Jace Evans had no idea where to get metal, which tells me he had no idea what he was doing.

'master commander' never followed through.. with much of anything, it seems.

Keegan never posted pics, so I'm guessing that got abandoned.

Arthraxis got discouraged by several different people, and I'm guessing dropped the idea.

'leegrisham' also hasn't done anything, it seems.

It's kind of a funny pattern.. in most of these threads someone explains their idea, people shoot it down, and nothing new is ever built. I'd think part of your role in this community is to encourage builders to build- even if what they're doing isn't the way you'd do it.

You are correct...

 

[Loess]

Metal armor IS possible, it's just hard to make. (kinda like nice pep) I was away from my shop this weekend so I didn't get to make any progress on my armors. The best way I can think of to make Mjolnir is Investment casting. This method is also called Lost-Wax casting. You start with a wax model that is exactly the shape you want the metal to be. You add a sprue tree to it. The sprue is like the runners that hold the parts of a plastic model kit together, it feeds the metal into the mold. After the model is treed, you dip it in a thin ceramic slip and sift fine zircon sand over it. Dip and sift repeatedly, till you build up a shell. Let the shell dry out, then you put the wax-filled shell into a special oven to melt out the wax and sinter the ceramic. While the shell is firing, you melt the metal in the furnace of you choice. (I will be using electric) Now that the shell is hardened, and the wax is burned out, you can take it out of the oven, and pour the metal into it, because the shell is hot, thin section castings are more likely to work. Let it cool for a few hours, crack the ceramic off, sandblast the firescale and any bits of the shell off your casting, cut off the sprue and sand down any rough spots. If you planned everything correctly, took your time prepping, and got lucky, you should have a kick-butt piece of armor made out of nearly any metal you can get to melt.

A good way to get a wax model for armor would be to roto-cast it in a mold taken from a pep or sculpted master.

Investment works for aluminum, zinc, steel, stainless steel, platinum, gold, .... just about anything that melts, provided that you can deal with oxidation and gas entrainment with the metals that have those problems during casting.

I'm not promising any results soon, but I DO plan on developing this. I just have too many other projects to finish right now to run with it. The biggest problem I have is that I take so long to get a pep part ready to mold. (I've been working on my NZ-TK ODST helm for 3 months and I'm still not done)

 

[volkov]

thanks loess, even more ideas, I'll probably leave that path to you though, I'm really into this sand casting idea.. I know I suck at using paint, but I made a drawing of what I intend on doing (it could be used for thighplates or wristguards). I took the picture from backyard molding and then used my l33t 3rd grader paint skills to try to show my idea

edit: bleh, the attachment looks even worse then the real thing, oh well

 

[tubachris85x]

Did you read the thread? I broke down the density of aluminum and possible armor weight, and compared it to actual armor that I've worn. Please, lurk more.
Loess is still building.

Jace Evans had no idea where to get metal, which tells me he had no idea what he was doing.

'master commander' never followed through.. with much of anything, it seems.

Keegan never posted pics, so I'm guessing that got abandoned.

Arthraxis got discouraged by several different people, and I'm guessing dropped the idea.

'leegrisham' also hasn't done anything, it seems.

It's kind of a funny pattern.. in most of these threads someone explains their idea, people shoot it down, and nothing new is ever built. I'd think part of your role in this community is to encourage builders to build- even if what they're doing isn't the way you'd do it.

I think that the matter of using the lost foam casting is impractical.

You told me this face to face once when I asked you about it, as I quote what you typed in your previous post:

There might be problems, though. One is the thickness of the pieces. You can't cast 1/8" thick parts with a home casting setup, or, I can't.

Thats why I said "too heavy."

That armor that you wear is hand crafted, not through lost foam casting. I think it would have been better suggested to just use sheet aluminum, and work it that way. I have seen successful pieces of fett armor, such as the guantlets made from using just that. Considering that can be made using sheet aluminum, with its complex details, that you can use it for this.

The only other way I know of that you can do this in metal is most likely not going to be easy at home, which is making a wax cast, coating it in ceramic material and then pouring the molten metal into it. Thats how alot of metal boating parts are created, such as boat props.

I dont "lurk," micheal

 

[Rob]

I have read this I do not get it at all. So I will start a full Steel or Stainless MC Suit in Apr for my B-Day. Metal armor is NOT hard to make us armours have been hammering it out for 2000 + years. (me for 27)

All my clone molds are metal....

To heavy... I do not think so we are looking a 40 to 50 lbs, come on.
:rolleyes

 

[Vrogy]

Wow, you truly didn't read it. 'Lurk more' is the same as saying 'read more post less'. In the weight breakdown I accounted for a thickness of parts of about 1/4-3/8", not 1/8".

Also, my armor was presented for the purpose of comparing the amount of weight which someone could wear comfortably. It has a lot of steel it it- the helmet is about 10-12 pounds alone.

I told you it was impractical with the understanding that we were looking for a way to make lots of molded or vacuum-formed armor for costuming. Average fan stuff. A suit of metal armor would pretty much separate the average molded-armor-wearing fan from the psychotically-hardcore fringey people, who are awesome.

 

[tubachris85x]

Wow, you truly didn't read it. 'Lurk more' is the same as saying 'read more post less'. In the weight breakdown I accounted for a thickness of parts of about 1/4-3/8", not 1/8".

Also, my armor was presented for the purpose of comparing the amount of weight which someone could wear comfortably. It has a lot of steel it it- the helmet is about 10-12 pounds alone.

I told you it was impractical with the understanding that we were looking for a way to make lots of molded or vacuum-formed armor for costuming. Average fan stuff. A suit of metal armor would pretty much separate the average molded-armor-wearing fan from the psychotically-hardcore fringey people, who are awesome.

I dont think it really seperates anyone, which I believe is a fallacy in that statement. Im pretty sure that if it was easy for everyone to make anything they wanted out of metal, they could. Not everyone has the money or the tools/ability to do this kind of work on their own. I know quite a few Mando's who use metal armor pieces just for the sense of realism in their costume representations/replicas, but still combine FG molded pieces, for helmets especially for the sake of comfortablity.

Where I think it would be great as a novelty suit, based on MY experiences as a handler for 501st trooper's, I cant see someone wanting to troop for up to 4+ hours in a complete metal suit.


However, do not confuse me, Im not saying to NOT to make a metal suit if you want to.

 

[volkov]

I have read this I do not get it at all. So I will start a full Steel or Stainless MC Suit in Apr for my B-Day. Metal armor is NOT hard to make us armours have been hammering it out for 2000 + years. (me for 27)

All my clone molds are metal....

To heavy... I do not think so we are looking a 40 to 50 lbs, come on.
:rolleyes

awesome rob! I'll call you tomorrow, I would love to know your ideas!

 

[Keegan]

Yeah, when I started it with my bud, we got into it but the jaw was like, a blob, full of weld marks. We tried to do the back and it didnt work because it needed to curve sort of and of course metal dun do that.

 

[kyzzzle360]

**I just had the stupidest, but most interesting ways to approach this.
Like wood blocks you can carve it, so we take that method and apply it to metals.
you start out with a chunk of an alloy you'd prefer [ohhhhweeee thats expensive] and carve it down with tools, assuming you'd have familiar experience in operating machinery, you can "carve" down to its shape and detail it with ¿power tools[idk]?

you can layer everything. like start with the basic shape of armor and then wield layers and cut them into shapes so as you layer them up. your result is the indentations, bevels, and detail of the armor (sorta like how the egyptians built pyramids- stacking and chiseling to bring an overshape)

 

[Loess]

**I just had the stupidest, but most interesting ways to approach this.
Like wood blocks you can carve it, so we take that method and apply it to metals.
you start out with a chunk of an alloy you'd prefer [ohhhhweeee thats expensive] and carve it down with tools, assuming you'd have familiar experience in operating machinery, you can "carve" down to its shape and detail it with ¿power tools[idk]?

you can layer everything. like start with the basic shape of armor and then wield layers and cut them into shapes so as you layer them up. your result is the indentations, bevels, and detail of the armor (sorta like how the egyptians built pyramids- stacking and chiseling to bring an overshape)

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You can start with a solid block and mill it. But I can't afford it.

 

[kyzzzle360]

EXACTLy!!!

 

[volkov]

another thing is, the less complicated the better, I'm basically looking to make a mold and dump melted aluminum in it, nothing more complex then that, I think it's feasible based on what I've read, the hardest part is keeping it hollow and also seperating a mold to get your pull out (since sand casting is solid, this part will be dificult, unless it's going to be a new mold each time.. which seems kind of pointless)

 

[Sean Bradley]

I'd think part of your role in this community is to encourage builders to build- even if what they're doing isn't the way you'd do it.

Sean Bradley wrote:

I don't mean to be negative, in fact I hope that someone proves us all wrong by making a fantastic set of wearable armor. I guess I just wanted to note that many have tried and noone has been sucessful yet.

I mean exactly what I'm saying there. I do hope that someone pulls this off. Forgive me if I sound skeptical because there has been so much discussion of this but very little has come of it. I do think it's possible and I'd love for someone to devote themselves to it, and make it work. I'm not being biased. I have been encouraging builders to build for years on this website, but I refuse to offer advice on a project that I haven't done myself, I think it would be irresponsible to do so.

I thought it might be useful for this dicussion to see what others have tried, and to document some of the other discussion as an aid for the OP. If you feel that it's discouraging, disregard it.

Thanks for your continued support Vrogy.

 

[Rob]

Well I just did my first molded putter at Gulf Wars. I made 9 1535c buckles 1.75 X .60 ish. I would not pore a pice as large as a hand at this time.

I will make mine the flat way. 18 ga steel is what most of the combat armour is.

well thats the plan...

This is the ODST H2 shoulder molds in .060 Aul.

 

[thorssoli]

Would this be a bad time to add these pics of my cold-cast aluminum helmet?

It'll come out a bit shinier once I've finished buffing it. The next one I make will have a bit more aluminum added to give it an even brighter metal finish. Essentially it has all the appearance of metal with the ease of casting in resin.

For more info on "cold casting," check out the following links:

http://www.sculpt.com/technotes/COLDCAST.htm

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1163631

 

[Heavyarms Custom]

HOLY CRAPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!! we need to talk thor
and i fully support this cuz if i made the armor out of pep or something i want it to stand up to CQC but makeing a metal or cold cast that could stand up to even a bike accident i would gladly throw a few grand into it but i would need to work on my body alot to make it fit right

 

[tubachris85x]

HOLY CRAPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!! we need to talk thor
and i fully support this cuz if i made the armor out of pep or something i want it to stand up to CQC but makeing a metal or cold cast that could stand up to even a bike accident i would gladly throw a few grand into it but i would need to work on my body alot to make it fit right

I think cold casting is an awsome method for casting, however, you have to remember that its not metal, it contains a mix of aluminum powder from what I recall, which is mixed into the resin when fiberglassing. Very good job thorssoli