Plasma Code
Jr Member
The only thing I can see being useful is the helmet. Everything else seems to limit mobility and access weight.
ODST armor useful for the military?
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GMer56
Sr Member
Lots of people seem to worry about cost. Bug considering that it cost several million dollars for a fighter jet, what would a million be for a soldier who would probably be more useful than standard infantry?
Cost is negligible, because of the simple fact that the United States can simply print more money to pay off its debt (Post WWI Germany, anyone?). And considering the debt is in the Trillions, a few dozen million wouldn't be missed, would it?
The only way a ODST-like suit (or MJOLNIR, for that matter) would be used in the military would be it a) it was indestructible or b) highly maneuverable. Neither are currently the case (although the Hal-5...), so we just need to let the little buggers grow up in the engineering labs before they can go out into the real world.
Bark!
Cost is negligible, because of the simple fact that the United States can simply print more money to pay off its debt (Post WWI Germany, anyone?). And considering the debt is in the Trillions, a few dozen million wouldn't be missed, would it?
The only way a ODST-like suit (or MJOLNIR, for that matter) would be used in the military would be it a) it was indestructible or b) highly maneuverable. Neither are currently the case (although the Hal-5...), so we just need to let the little buggers grow up in the engineering labs before they can go out into the real world.
Bark!
SchizophrenicMC
Well-Known Member
It's the most reasonable design for a futuristic suit of spec-ops armor I can think of. And, it's not that immobilizing. With a little modification to my prop armor, I could do anything I can in a pair of jeans and a t-shirt, and that's a fairly accurate representation. Weight is a concern, but taking into account its protection versus high mobility, it's a reasonable compromise.
Keep in mind, one fighter plane has much more tactical worth than even a squad of soldiers. Thus, its higher cost is justified. And there are fewer fighter planes than infantrymen of any type. I mean, there are 180 F-22's in the entire Air Force. The total overall cost per unit of this armor would be into the millions of dollars, which is hard to justify for a single man. A fighter plane will go through several pilots and last 30 or 40 years, if the F-15 is anything to go by. A suit of battle armor might not make it all the way through one soldier's career.
And Germany put itself in MORE debt when it printed more money. All that does is increase inflation and devalue your currency.
Furthermore, the debt IS in the trillions, but that doesn't mean you can just say "oh, screw it, let's blow a few billion more on stuff we can't afford and don't need right now" when everything else is -blam!-ed! If you're $20,000 in debt for your car, do you buy another car with $6000 you don't have?
The cost is NOT negligible. The increase from $40,000 in equipment for a SEALs unit to $4,000,000 is a marked one, and that's the kind of scale we're talking about when we discuss this kind of implementation of technology.
The only way an ODST-similar armor would be used was if it was cheaper than the current system and provided more protection. It does the latter, but it fails to meet cost requirements, and that's the most important thing to the brass. To quote Alan Shepard, from atop the Redstone Rocket, what he thought of the most was "'The fact that every part of this ship was built by the low bidder.'"
What's up with the helmet, though? If anything, I'd drop the helmet in favor of a more conventional UNSC Marines helmet. The same HUD capabilities, sans VISR, and without the decreased visibility. And, let's be honest, there's no way that thin, transparent plate can have much protection. And the whole thing must weigh more than a bowl helmet, which is not something you wanna do to your neck, plus the added protection is minor.
gingersnapples
Well-Known Member
yeah, printing money increases debt. increasing the yearly deficit, and decreasing the power of the US dollar.
SchizophrenicMC
Well-Known Member
Gotta love them basic economics. Ever wonder why the Deutschemark is still worth nothing?
gingersnapples
Well-Known Member
exactly! but germany now is doing much better than during depression years and wwII.
WrathPrime
Member
Gotta love them basic economics. Ever wonder why the Deutschemark is still worth nothing?
It's no where near being worth nothing. It's not as strong as some currency is today but it's no peso(of any country) either.
SchizophrenicMC
Well-Known Member
They switched to the Euro, and standardized. Deutschemarks are only good in some parts of Germany, now.
One example of how artificially undervaluing your currency can be a good thing is the Japanese Yen. A yen is only worth a few pennies (now) but that's by design. They've eliminated the need for small denominations.
By the way, China's undervalued its own currency, as well. Might just be 5 years instead of 20 before they exceed the American economy. Oh how the tables have turned, largely due to our own hubris.
Gotta love them basic economics. Ever wonder why the Deutschemark is still worth nothing?
Erm, not sure if that is the point of your joke... but you guys do realise that the Deutsche Mark was replaced with the Euro over twelve years ago, right?
Edit:
No, it's completely gone.
GMer56
Sr Member
A few counterpoints
1) Who's to say the armor won't last 30-40 years? Who says the jet will last 30-40 years? It's not the number of years that jets are in service, but the flight hours.
2) Your "car" metaphor is actually quite off. It would probably cost a few million to make power armor (pending). Considering the debt is in the trillions, a more appropriate metaphor would be like being a million dollars in debt, and then buying a candy bar for a buck. A trillion divided by a million is a million
3)I was only comparing the costs, not the actual usage. But considering if the firepower of a jet machine gun is needed in a no-fly zone... a heavily armored weapons platform would be preferable.
4) Who says power armor would be wide-spread? A few teams of four would do.
5) If an enemy sees a soldier in power armor burst through the wall, he'll load his pants. Intimidation factor. Psychological warfare is indeed fair.
Man, I gotta check these forums more often
Weight being the obvious issue. Being an ex reservist, it was hard enough carring webbing, weapon, pack and water jerries long distances. That was before wearing body armour! Maybe it would be useful for high visibility units, such as cavalry seeing as they would draw attention faster, and the protection afforded there would be an effective trade off. Can't see its place in modern light infantry roles however in my humble opinion. Also I can't help but wonder how heat stress would go in that suit? Seeing as they are ODST they would have insulation; wouldnt the suit have a heat release/air conditioning system?
gingersnapples
Well-Known Member
ask btac. he might have a few ideas. but the visor on the helmet looks like it has ZERO practicality.
SchizophrenicMC
Well-Known Member
I think the ODST armor is useful, yeah, but it's a lot of money to spend, when the brass has always chosen the cheapest option.A few counterpoints
1) Who's to say the armor won't last 30-40 years? Who says the jet will last 30-40 years? It's not the number of years that jets are in service, but the flight hours.
And, if the lifetime of the armor, as seen in Halo 3: ODST, is anything to go by, a harsh deployment may see only tens of service hours on each set of armor, before they're not combat-worthy. Even constant deployment of Generation IV fighters, as seen in the Gulf War, resulted in hundreds of flight hours added to airframes, with only maintenance, and not replacement.
2) Your "car" metaphor is actually quite off. It would probably cost a few million to make power armor (pending). Considering the debt is in the trillions, a more appropriate metaphor would be like being a million dollars in debt, and then buying a candy bar for a buck. A trillion divided by a million is a million
That only covers one suit. (Keep in mind, also, we're talking only about the unpowered ODST BDU) Assuming ODSTs are analogous to Navy SEALs, you would have to multiply this by 2000, to roughly cover the number of suits you'd have to make for active-duty members. That's going a million dollars in debt and buying a '92 Corolla. Not the most stark loss of money, but still a month's pay, not spent wisely.
3)I was only comparing the costs, not the actual usage. But considering if the firepower of a jet machine gun is needed in a no-fly zone... a heavily armored weapons platform would be preferable.
And in that case, you deploy the Scopedogs.
4) Who says power armor would be wide-spread? A few teams of four would do.
Again, not power armor. This concerns the ODST BDU, which is deployed en masse to literally thousands of units, in Halo. This theoretically corresponds to the 2000-man strong US Navy SEALs. A few teams of four SEALs is really stretching them, don't you think? ;P
5) If an enemy sees a soldier in power armor burst through the wall, he'll load his pants. Intimidation factor. Psychological warfare is indeed fair.
Again, not power armor. And that's something I address, is intimidation.
Man, I gotta check these forums more often
Besides, powered armor on the scale of MJOLNIR's efficacy would cost not millions, but BILLIONS to produce.
Ventrue, it may have been replaced, but I was under the impression you could still exchange them at certain banks, for whatever small fraction of the Euro they're worth. Least that's what gramps told me, last time he went to Germany.
Longie, the undersuit is stated to have temperature regulation gear.
Btac, I fail to see how impractical the helmet is.
You said it was still good in parts of the country, that sounded like you could actually pay with it, which isn't the case. But the federal bank still gives you about 1 Euro for every 2 DM, yes.
Lord Talon
Jr Member
The problem with Dragon Scale/Plate armour was that it had a bad habit of breaking down with heat (it had a impact/piercing resistant gel as an major part of it and it hates heat) and the plates wore through the kevlar shell.
I thought the company did a test and showed that it passed the heat test? I'll have to re-read on that.
I'd say the UNSC Marine would be more usefull. It seems to combine conventional body armor with composite plates for added ballistic protection as well as protection from the wear and tear of combat on joints, etc. As a US Marine, I'd go with this gear before I looked at anything as cumbersome as an ODST armor, no matter how cool I think that helmet looks.
Mr Amateur hour
New Member
To be fair, most of the basics for the armor are sound enough, and are currently being researched and produced. Unfortunately, it won't look half as awesome. Exterior plating, large, bulky helms, and clunky structure don't bode well for practical troops. Personal protection for modern soldiers won't be so obtrusive; most likely fitting the body organically like a bullet-proof glove or wet-suit, and not an actual suit of patch- work armor. HUDS and what not will be smaller, and not confined to a single piece of the uniform. Goggles, maybe. Everything else is just for looks, and will most likely be altered for practical purposes. Then again, ODST's are soldiers of the future, so who knows. War never changes, but the way it's fought might.
. Exterior plating, large, bulky helms, and clunky structure don't bode well for practical troops. Personal protection for modern soldiers won't be so obtrusive; most likely fitting the body organically like a bullet-proof glove or wet-suit, and not an actual suit of patch- work armor. HUDS and what not will be smaller, and not confined to a single piece of the uniform. Goggles, maybe. Everything else is just for looks, and will most likely be altered for practical purposes. Then again, ODST's are soldiers of the future, so who knows. War never changes, but the way it's fought might.SchizophrenicMC
Well-Known Member
I think that's what we're all forgetting, here. Even if they're not useful, now, there's no telling how practical that type of armor might be in the future. I mean, all that plating protects against directed energy weapons, far better than any bodysuit could, simply because it IS made of heavy, metal plates, and can resist the heat better. War's gotta be fought differently.
Shock Trooper 2148
Jr Member
Using the solidified state of UNSC's Defence Force - ODST BDU is quite practical on the battle field. However the use of this sort of armor isn't pliable or even feasible for modern usages in our world. Unlike the world in Halo, energy directed weapons were the main concern for the soldiers, who were either on the front-line or directly on it. In our world, we deal with projectiles and highly explosive weaponry. If we were to implement the ODST BDU to a modern day soldier, we have to cut down ODST BDU external structure to a highly innovative and complex whole. Hopefully this would sustain a greater mobility for the soldier on the battlefield.
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