Soft Parts Under Armor Gel

[MandoMan531]

the gel layer is also pressurized and able to regulaate pressure anywhere in the suit.
correct me if im wrong but as the suit monitors the Spartans vital signs, say a stray bullet got through a joint in the armor and wounded the Spartan. the suit can build pressure in that area to stop bleeding or to support a broken bone.

a Spartan would still be able to walk and run with a broken leg or ankle, since the armor is a exoskeleton linked into their neural synapses.

even in the books they explained that regular soldiers with only cyber links and no augmentations to their bone density or muscles tried to use thee suit and broke appendages due to the suit being able to assist movement before the actual body part could react to the brains instructions. so their arm moved so fast it broke inside the armor.

i KNOW i remeber reading this.

 

[CommanderFluffy]

has anyone thought of trying this method. 3 or more layers of armor.

Listed from inside to out.

1. close to the skin is a jell layer much like a jell bike seat.
2. a nural network of heat curcits that can be powered from the backpack and a temerature control in your forearm. the curcit network can cool or heat your body and recieve information so you can regulate spicific areas. also it is your trnsfer to turn on your flashlights and or extra arm helmet chest and backpack lights.
3. a layer of D3O for inner protection.
4. a layer of small flexable fabrics that are from bullet proofing equiptment
5. another layer of D3O
5. final cover layer that holds on armor peices with rivets and connectors.

Each layer is placed in what looks like either a ski suit that progressively larger or a wet suit.

thats my idea of a undersuit. computer and power supply are all inside your back pack. and controlls to the computer are on a lockable doubble touch screen in one of your forearms. suit should be a total of an inch or so either way thick can be smaller or larger depending on materials used.

if you just jumped into the conversation read back and look at D3O

 

[merlin 2 00]

I have always been fascinated by Halo armor, and Since Ive been on this site, I have been extra fascinated. I have especially been fascinated by the suit in which Master Chief wears. Lets discuss the gel layer under the metal. I understand it can block bullets but what exactly is it? Can is be found in our world? How thick is it, and what is its ability to move and be comfertable over a human. Also, what part actually touches the skin? Wouldnt it make soar and stuff?
I have been thinking about this for a while, couldn't people now adays make this under gel which can block bullets so you barely feel it?
This is my idea. First you make an outside layer, this is the actuall part that stops the bullets. This would be made out of stf (shear thickening fluid) coated kevlar. Then, since this would still hurt to be hit by, you make an under layer which actually gives with the bullet to make the impulse (stopping time) much higher. This part could be a strong rubber, 2cm thick with a foam layer in between that. Now, all you need it to make the parts where it bends thinner, for more comfort. In the inside however, I would make an adhesive layer which clung to the skin, and bent with the skin without making soars and what not. In the end, you could apply metal to even further stop bullets, but I would think this would work. All you need is a cooling system to breath in the suit.

yo dude theres this stuff called d3o its freakin cool it kinda dose that thay put it in a beanie and thay hit him in the head with a shovel and he dident feel it

 

[TANNER DA PIMP]

ok i might have what your looking for... its not quite a gel as a rubberey plastic...to make it you need to get a glass or metal container and pour acetone in it. then just add styrofoam. at first its very liquidy which is good if your putting it in armor. after 2-3 days of drying it becomes rock hard but is very light and still has some give to it. i made some the size of a baseball and it weighd 1 mabye 2 ounces at most. its also nearly indestructable....i took a flamethrower to it for 20 seconds at it didnt leave a mark..i also stabbed it with all my might with a razor sharp knife and only dug 3-5mm into it. as for bullets i havent tested anything with powder behind it but my high powered bb gun (800)fps at point blank just bounced off it like it was nothing...so used right it might be able to do what u want it to....and as for the cooling system ive also thought about that....wouldnt wearing two undersuits and then having tubing run inbetween them that conected to a pump in the backback that pumped ice cold or hot water thru out the system

 

[23Magnum]

ok i might have what your looking for... its not quite a gel as a rubberey plastic...to make it you need to get a glass or metal container and pour acetone in it. then just add styrofoam. at first its very liquidy which is good if your putting it in armor. after 2-3 days of drying it becomes rock hard but is very light and still has some give to it. i made some the size of a baseball and it weighd 1 mabye 2 ounces at most. its also nearly indestructable....i took a flamethrower to it for 20 seconds at it didnt leave a mark..i also stabbed it with all my might with a razor sharp knife and only dug 3-5mm into it. as for bullets i havent tested anything with powder behind it but my high powered bb gun (800)fps at point blank just bounced off it like it was nothing...so used right it might be able to do what u want it to....and as for the cooling system ive also thought about that....wouldnt wearing two undersuits and then having tubing run inbetween them that conected to a pump in the backback that pumped ice cold or hot water thru out the system

You forgot to add that you must be in a well ventilated area to perform this as it gives off toxic fumes...

 

[Ice198]

You forgot to add that you must be in a well ventilated area to perform this as it gives off toxic fumes...

Good catch Magnum, and also, I noticed it was a bit of a necro-post yesterday(?) made by Merlin.
Because there is a large difference between Nov 7th and July 23rd...
But nontheless, I can still see that this is a hot topic among us. - Ice

 

[23Magnum]

Good catch Magnum, and also, I noticed it was a bit of a necro-post yesterday(?) made by Merlin.
Because there is a large difference between Nov 7th and July 23rd...
But nontheless, I can still see that this is a hot topic among us. - Ice

I noticed as well. As long as the conversation stays its course, I think it's alright. I had actually been thinking of the undersuit again lately anyway...

 

[Overlord Ian]

Wow, I had a very similar idea! Great minds think alike I suppose!

 

[Belakor]

Wow, I had a very similar idea! Great minds think alike I suppose!

Okay, these colored posts have to stop. It makes it harder to read, which gives me a headache and I'm no fun when that happens... plus it's serves absolutely no purpose. This goes for everyone BTW

 

[Spartan 129]

just because his armor has an electrical current as the shielding, doesn't mean it would cause the armor to lock up, the armor locking up would be do to either a built in feature to ensure that the body stays in a position where the arms and legs are spread out in case of serious injury, or it could be locked up due to too little power left, or some other reason, but honestly, how does the type of material or system you use for the defence have anything to do with movement? What I mean is that if it locks up, it's not because of the defence, it's because of an issue with the armor itself.

The whole lock-up thing on his suit is a security thing, because in the book about the first halo 117 "locks" it when he isn't in it, and it's probably an emergency thing also; but since I just found you guys I'll mention that in "Ghosts of Onyx" the gell layer is liquid nano-crystals... so I guess it's like shooting a flexible bullet-proof window, shoot it too much and your done; still don't know how they contain it though, but MC does "pop the seals" on one of his sky-diving trips though, and fixes it with a replacement from one of the less lucky spartans. Darn! now you all got me thinking about this also!

 

[Serpent ZX]

Wow... I have been skipping around on this topic thread here, and there today, and just when I am about to post, each time, I decide not to bother... Not to be rude though. There are MANY types of bullet proof, pressurizing systems, flame retardency, magnetic felds, padding, nanotechnology, and shielding that is in use as of right now by the Navy, Army, and other military forces, as well as being tested. Trying to pinpoint the exact function of the gel would be close to impossible, and even more so because it's nowhere near our timeline.

They even go so far as to use explosives as a bulletproofing material. Some models of Tanks, and ATV's are LOADED with explosives to prevent other explosives, such as enemy shells, and RPG's. They simply angle small explosives under plating that would explode outward, while not damaging the underside, to deflect enemy fire. Sacrifice a small amount of damage to avoid a much, much, much more fatal shot.

Then there is the fact that the darn government just LOVES fiberglass, kevlar, rubbers, and plastics. That includes substances also. They even go so far to tear Humvees to shreads to replace metal with level 8 fiberglass.

Trying to create a material that is bullet RESISTANT from a distance, is easy, if you have the materials, and know what your doing. I make odd stuff, on odd shop orders daily for government / Navy use. The gel layer could be a lot of things, like I said. It could be a non-toxic thicking agent, that doubles as a healing factor. And don't forget, gel, doesn't HAVE to mean like the consistency of hair gel. No matter what, the undersuit would have to be made out of some type of rubber, or plastic to hold in the susbtance, and to protect it from being forced out. Or it could act like a protective layer like some dirt bike suits have, or stunt suits... Granted they cost around $3,000. When an impact is applied enough to force the little air inside, out, the gel becomes very stiff. You might need some assistance to open the valve to let the air back in to move freely without resistance. Sort of like a vaccum like system. For all we know, the gel layered suit in the future could be something very primitive to the stuff we have today... Just applied in a unique way. We will never know, unless Bungie tells us, but they could say anything they want.

Now that I think about it, this a very interesting topic. Heh...

 

[Xanderbach]

Oh- Just to clarify something, Kevlar does not deflect bullets or shrapnel. What it does is diffuse the force over a greater area (because of the layers and weave) and slow the fragments to the point that they do not penetrate very far. It is more effective against wider objects- Narrow weapons, such as an icepick, can pop right through it. It's really just hi-tech chainmail, in the end.
And as far as Halo armor goes... Hell, 500 years in the future is a long time. With the speed of computers climbing, and humans still evolving (speeding up, it is said these days) Halo may just seem to be laughable tech by then. "Physical defenses? Ridiculous!"

 

[Serpent ZX]

I totally forgot about that. Kevlar. Your absolutely right. If it's not laid right, or the correct resin used in certain applications, it's just as useful as normal cloth. It has to be secured correctly. It's also cut resistant. But you take a pair of scissors, and *snip* It's only effective if someone tries to quickly slash at you. There are many levels of fiberglass, and kevlar. Each one has a different grade of protection also, and different weaves. It's also the reason they usually only use vests made of kevlar for small arms shooting. Instead of piercing you, it will feel like a bee sting that just knocked the wind out of you, and also might even break a few bones. There is a lot more to it, but... You get the point. Or not.

 

[Bryan716]

been reading through, and this thread caught my eye. Figure I would do a little research and try to pin point an approximate cost to actually doing this. Now I am no ballistics effort, most of the info I found online from manufactures or wiki pages. Also I am not condoning the actual production and use of this, so therefore am not responsible and can not be held accountable if someone were to make this and test it out on themselves, I would ask though, that I am the one who can post it to Darwin Awards if you do test it and somehow "injure" yourself.

Now to build one of these complete armors for actual use would rule, but as said in the many posts above this......EXPENSIVE. Now if one has the desire, there are places you could buy the ceramic plates, and maybe build around those. An example of the cost, and remember this is for 1 plate only, no vest included:

Description Size: 10" x 12" Ceramic plates level IV :Body Armor Plates
Weight: 7 pounds (2.8 kg)
Thickness: 0.69 inch (1.75 cm)
Materials: Aramid Fiber bonded (Aluminum Oxide 98%)
Protection Level: Level III Protection Level: Level IV in conjuction with a IIIA vest.
Available in triple curve . (price is per plate)
will defeat the following threats:
7.62 × 54mm lead core ball ammunition, Dragunov Sniper Rifle at 50 meters
7.62 × 54mm AP, Dragunov Sniper Rifle at 50 meters
7.62 × 51mm NATO ball ammunition at 10 meters
7.62 × 51mm AP M-61 at 10 meters
7.62 × 39mm mild steel core, AK-47 at 10 meters
7.62 × 63mm AP at 10 meters
5.56 × 45mm SS109/M855 at 10 meters
5.56 × 45mm M193 ball at 10 meters
5.45 × 39mm Russian ball at 10 meters
12 gauge slug at 10 meters (perfect for Griff)

Now keep in mind, that when a bullet stikes the ceramic, it will not just bounce or deflect off, it will actually "break or shatter" the ceramic. That is why there is a protective coating over it, to keep the shards from hitting the wearer.
With that, figure you would need 2 plates for the torso armor (front and back), 1 piece for the groin (probably not ceramic though, unless you are into that), 1 butt plate (waiting for the jokes to follow), legs and arms. So in total, maybe like 10 - 12 pieces of varying shapes and sizes. Now the piece that was exampled above is about $375.00, and a groin armor cup is about $350.00. These pieces would be what you would make you hard armor around, possibly with a Titanium or even Tungsten Steel (not sure how heavy the tungsten would be) I say possibly Tungsten due to it being used on Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discardable Sabot rounds (APFSDS). For the under suit, I would go with a Nomex suit of some kind.

As for Kevlar, there are other materials out there as well, such as Dyneema which is 15 times stronger than steel and 40% stronger than Kevlar. There is also Spectra, but not sure of its properties. Dyneema and Spectra are actually a Synthetic fibers made from plastic.
SO let's take a guestimate of the costs
Nomex flight suit : about $175.00 (new, not Ebay)
Standard level III-A Vest : about $945.00 (this will stop most 9mm and .44 magnum)
Ballistic Neck/Shoulder protection: About $145.00
Ceramic Rifle plates : $375.00 x2 (chest and back) protects (see specs above)
Other Ceramic Pieces : estimated $300.00 and up (due to specifications and sizes)
I will warrant a guess at around $2000.00 - $4000.00 for about 8 pieces (2R. Arm, 2L. Arm, 2R.Leg, 2R. leg)
I say 2 pieces for reasons of putting it on.
just all this would cost about $5000.00. Now my feelings are it would probably be higher, due to having to make custom pieces of ceramics. I also did not include the helmet, cause in order to get our favorite armor look, well there would be a lot of mods needed on it. The Level IIIA Helmet is $465.00 just to let you know.

So if one were to have the money, the time and effort, and the yearning, you could probably pull off an actual work of art and wear it in the middle of a riot or fire fight (not that I would recommend or condone this sort of activity).

 

[BlindRascal]

I might not have read this whole thread and I might not know what you're all talking about, but you guys also have to realise, buying some kevlar fabric and then saying "LULZ THIS IS MAI BULLETPROOF ARMORZ!" isn't going to do anything. They have LOADS of layers together, and if I recall its all compressed with tons of pressure. And why would you guys ever need a knife resistant master chief costume anyways. Maybe I just skimmed through this thread to quickly.

 

[Msj2705]

so its been like 7 days now.. but there is a type of liquid armor that has not been mentioned in this yet, i forgot the name of it right now, i will try to find it then edit this post later, but it is a very strange material that turns to a liquid when it gets cold and when it gets hot it becomes hard, and because fired bullets are so hot due to the explosion that launched it, when it hits this liquid it actually catches the bullet and then it slowly drops it. I remember reading about this somewhere, can't remember right now, but its not very practical right now because you would need to find a portable cooling device and a portable energy source. I think there is some sort of rubber around it that expands when it gets shot then skrinks back down so this liquid can't leak. I read about this a long time ago and somehow this was brought up in a conversation with this guy named Jim at a gaming place i went to. anyways... could be more practical (what is it, 500 years?) from now. Ill try to find something about this

 

[homsar66]

at about 4 minutes it talks about ballistic foam, bulletproof and lightweight stuff that seems pretty cool. I think this would be better than anything else. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqa08UGZGtk

 

[stephenrathie]

I don't know if this helps but I saw this on youtube a while ago but I think you could this as the Bullet proof stuff in your armor

its better than standard military armor and it can cover a lot more of you and it can stand up to more bullets at a time

 

[seraphdragon]

I have always been fascinated by Halo armor, and Since Ive been on this site, I have been extra fascinated. I have especially been fascinated by the suit in which Master Chief wears. Lets discuss the gel layer under the metal. I understand it can block bullets but what exactly is it? Can is be found in our world? How thick is it, and what is its ability to move and be comfertable over a human. Also, what part actually touches the skin? Wouldnt it make soar and stuff?
I have been thinking about this for a while, couldn't people now adays make this under gel which can block bullets so you barely feel it?
This is my idea. First you make an outside layer, this is the actuall part that stops the bullets. This would be made out of stf (shear thickening fluid) coated kevlar. Then, since this would still hurt to be hit by, you make an under layer which actually gives with the bullet to make the impulse (stopping time) much higher. This part could be a strong rubber, 2cm thick with a foam layer in between that. Now, all you need it to make the parts where it bends thinner, for more comfort. In the inside however, I would make an adhesive layer which clung to the skin, and bent with the skin without making soars and what not. In the end, you could apply metal to even further stop bullets, but I would think this would work. All you need is a cooling system to breath in the suit.

Read "Fall of Reach" it explains the theory behind the armor, and gives some insight into the story. for those who don't want to read and get all the details here's the short version. the gel is crystal based, like an LCD display. when an electric current is applied its properties can change, from putting pressure on a wound to stop bleeding, or absorbing impact from a bullet, rpg, or to falling 10 km through the atmosphere and landing without a parachute semi-safely (18% servival rate as compared to 0%). creating it ourselves would be quite expensive, not to mention useless since i don't think any of will be going into combat with it outside paint ball.

 

[d1omede5]

been reading through, and this thread caught my eye. Figure I would do a little research and try to pin point an approximate cost to actually doing this. Now I am no ballistics effort, most of the info I found online from manufactures or wiki pages. Also I am not condoning the actual production and use of this, so therefore am not responsible and can not be held accountable if someone were to make this and test it out on themselves, I would ask though, that I am the one who can post it to Darwin Awards if you do test it and somehow "injure" yourself.

Now to build one of these complete armors for actual use would rule, but as said in the many posts above this......EXPENSIVE. Now if one has the desire, there are places you could buy the ceramic plates, and maybe build around those. An example of the cost, and remember this is for 1 plate only, no vest included:

Description Size: 10" x 12" Ceramic plates level IV :Body Armor Plates
Weight: 7 pounds (2.8 kg)
Thickness: 0.69 inch (1.75 cm)
Materials: Aramid Fiber bonded (Aluminum Oxide 98%)
Protection Level: Level III Protection Level: Level IV in conjuction with a IIIA vest.
Available in triple curve . (price is per plate)
will defeat the following threats:
7.62 × 54mm lead core ball ammunition, Dragunov Sniper Rifle at 50 meters
7.62 × 54mm AP, Dragunov Sniper Rifle at 50 meters
7.62 × 51mm NATO ball ammunition at 10 meters
7.62 × 51mm AP M-61 at 10 meters
7.62 × 39mm mild steel core, AK-47 at 10 meters
7.62 × 63mm AP at 10 meters
5.56 × 45mm SS109/M855 at 10 meters
5.56 × 45mm M193 ball at 10 meters
5.45 × 39mm Russian ball at 10 meters
12 gauge slug at 10 meters (perfect for Griff)

Now keep in mind, that when a bullet stikes the ceramic, it will not just bounce or deflect off, it will actually "break or shatter" the ceramic. That is why there is a protective coating over it, to keep the shards from hitting the wearer.
With that, figure you would need 2 plates for the torso armor (front and back), 1 piece for the groin (probably not ceramic though, unless you are into that), 1 butt plate (waiting for the jokes to follow), legs and arms. So in total, maybe like 10 - 12 pieces of varying shapes and sizes. Now the piece that was exampled above is about $375.00, and a groin armor cup is about $350.00. These pieces would be what you would make you hard armor around, possibly with a Titanium or even Tungsten Steel (not sure how heavy the tungsten would be) I say possibly Tungsten due to it being used on Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discardable Sabot rounds (APFSDS). For the under suit, I would go with a Nomex suit of some kind.

As for Kevlar, there are other materials out there as well, such as Dyneema which is 15 times stronger than steel and 40% stronger than Kevlar. There is also Spectra, but not sure of its properties. Dyneema and Spectra are actually a Synthetic fibers made from plastic.
SO let's take a guestimate of the costs
Nomex flight suit : about $175.00 (new, not Ebay)
Standard level III-A Vest : about $945.00 (this will stop most 9mm and .44 magnum)
Ballistic Neck/Shoulder protection: About $145.00
Ceramic Rifle plates : $375.00 x2 (chest and back) protects (see specs above)
Other Ceramic Pieces : estimated $300.00 and up (due to specifications and sizes)
I will warrant a guess at around $2000.00 - $4000.00 for about 8 pieces (2R. Arm, 2L. Arm, 2R.Leg, 2R. leg)
I say 2 pieces for reasons of putting it on.
just all this would cost about $5000.00. Now my feelings are it would probably be higher, due to having to make custom pieces of ceramics. I also did not include the helmet, cause in order to get our favorite armor look, well there would be a lot of mods needed on it. The Level IIIA Helmet is $465.00 just to let you know.

So if one were to have the money, the time and effort, and the yearning, you could probably pull off an actual work of art and wear it in the middle of a riot or fire fight (not that I would recommend or condone this sort of activity).

not a bad thought, but there are some basic problems with that. The first and most obvious is weight. I have been wearing the Army's new IOTV armor, which is much lighter than the last armor we were issued. It contains a front and back plate, along with two side plates. This, along with the kevlar, helmet, weapon (M249), ammunition (800 rounds belted 5.56), and liter of water, is HEAVY. I have had to sprint from building to building and road march for miles in training (which are the easy days), and I must say that I didn't enjoy it one bit. The point is that even without the weapon and ammunition, the armor alone would be extremely heavy. Let us not forget the knight of medieval ages, who rode on a horse mainly because his armor was too heavy for him to walk!

The second issue is reliability. Ceramic plates are not meant to save a person from more than a few shots. Three or four 7.62 rounds are prettymuch all most ceramic plates are able to take. After the first impact, the plate's integrity is compromised, and it starts losing its ballistic quality.

The last is availability. Though there are some places civilians can purchase Level IIIA armor, most of it is strictly for military and law enforcement only. Also, this armor is almost exclusively for head and torso areas only. For other areas such as the neck, arms, legs, and groin, Kevlar is used. In military use, it is meant only to stop shrapnel from explosions, and is not relied on for its ability (or inability in this case) to stop a bullet.

Plus, one more thing: cost- I believe you may have skimped on your research a little bit on the true cost of the project. Surely when it takes tens of thousands of dollars to outfit individual soldiers for battle, commercially available armor would be more expensive. But I have been wrong before. Anywho, making such armor would be a huge waste of money, since no armor could truly guarantee complete protection.