405th versus 501st

[Primal Weyland]

Agreed. I merely speak for those that can't afford such a commitment, however - take myself, for example. Finding work is extremely hard, especially with university debt weighing down.

Some that wish to go the 'whole hog' as it were just can't even if they wanted to.

 

[NZTK]

NOBODY here, apart from a VERY select few, has the expendable budget to make this sort of stuff. Do you REALLY wish to wipe out an entire 70%, maybe even 80% of your base just because they can't make stuff that's micron-accurate?

I hate to say it but yes., if the 501 accepted mediocrity we'd have huge numbers but we'd be a laughing stock (I know some people already think we are) 70 to 80 % of this group seems to be under 18 so wouldn't be eligible for membership anyway. This hobby is not for the faint of heart or weak of wallet.

 

[Keegan]

I'd like to help in making some trading cards, but I need Photoshop or someone with some photoshop skills. I no haz program yez? Yez, I dont. But Id be good for making the other stuff.

 

[Primal Weyland]

I hate to say it but yes., if the 501 accepted mediocrity we'd have huge numbers but we'd be a laughing stock (I know some people already think we are) 70 to 80 % of this group seems to be under 18 so wouldn't be eligible for membership anyway. This hobby is not for the faint of heart or weak of wallet.

Nobody here accepts mediocrity - if we did, we'd be churning out substandard armor and everybody would have a set. My point was that if we gather a base of people with REASONABLY acceptable armor, we can then work on getting more people up to standard.

I have to point out again - the 501st didn't start out with members churning out fantastic armor. More than likely they had people with non-accurate armor, and then they improved on it, and over time expanded the principle of 'movie accurate' armor. The same principle applies here - people with lesser-quality armor not giving up and working until they HAVE accurate armor, and then being RECOGNISED for it.

Agreed, this is an expensive hobby. Agreed, a lot of people are going to be put off by the cost of it. However, for those that have the money to make, say, Pepakura armor, but not to make a movie-accurate mould... are you really prepared to look into the face of that person and their hard work, and say 'go away, you're not good enough'? Because I, personally, would accept well-crafted Pepakura work as long as the quality were consistent throughout.

I'd like to help in making some trading cards, but I need Photoshop or someone with some photoshop skills. I no haz program yez? Yez, I dont. But Id be good for making the other stuff.

One thing at a time. I have Photoshop, but the TCG would have to wait until we have established members.

 

[Garland]

regular, paper, blocky pep armor can't be accepted. Bondo, sand it, glaze, it, mud it, fiberglass it etc - of course that's a different creature all together and looks great! IE, MLC's stuff looks better than mine in some cases. Paper-only armor though... you'd have to put up one heck of a good argument for it.

straight off the printer armor probably won't do. I think the original post came out wrong. Yes, will be judged on final appearance in the end.

That really clears it up! I was wondering why some were hating on pep as substandard. I think that's what most of us were thinking by pep: fully bondo-ed, sanded, and with a good paint job. I'm doing that, and if my pep pieces contain more than one tiny mistake, I redo the entire piece because I want to make the best possible. I built danni's helmet (pretty sweet btw), but I'm going to go back and do FS's latest helm because of the insane amount of accurate detail. It's the final product that counts, not the construction method. Although I do admit that the fibreglass will likely be less durable and require more maintenance, but everything's a tradeoff.

 

[NZTK]

The same principle applies here - people with lesser-quality armor not giving up and working until they HAVE accurate armor, and then being RECOGNISED for it.

Thats what I meant by
A, yes, Proceed
B, no, Try again.
there will always be people willing to help people get their skills to the next level and their armour up to scratch. I'm not saying pep cant work, I personally find the distinction in the forums between pep based work and what you people called "moulded" to be largely ridiculous, its all just sculpting. Look at Belakors work, tell me its not any bit as good as any free sculpted fan made helmet out there. In the right hands a sculpt is a sculpt. In the wrong hands both methods will turn out substandard. You cant just expect to download a pep file and make something accurate, without the sculpting skills required to finish it properly. That's why there arn't a huge amount of quality fan helmet sculptors producing out there, its bloody hard and takes a good few years to get right, didnt bluerealm say his helmet took 2 years?, it takes a special kind of crazy to devote that much time to making replica props, I've been teaching myself prop making for about 5 or 6 years now, and my skills and knowledge are only just starting to bear fruit.

 

[Keegan]

Yes, we have had people make some really good stuff off of those files JediFraz had. But before thats all we had! So we had to make due. (<- Lol) But everyone here should bew willing to get the best armor they can have just because you should. If you arent willing to do that you shouldnt be on here. (Correct me if I am wrong) But thats my 52262145 cents.

 

[BishopX]

Hmmmm. Well, I'm pretty sure you have to set the standards that you wish to have your club known for. Even now, the 501st members are screened for and by Lucasfilm before they are used to represent Lucasfilm. This forum is not the 405th club that we are speaking of BTW. This is a costuming forum. There is a huge difference. We're not talking about kicking people out....but letting people in.

If I produce a set of armor and think it's just the greatest armor ever, that's great for me but does it look "movie quality"? That's what sets the 501st apart from total amateur costume groups. They have always had that standard and are even recognized for that by Lucasfilm. I deal with Lucasfilm quite a bit and the compliment has come across several times in talks that the 501st has better costumes than Lucasfilm. That is what you want here. Make it possible to purchase or make "movie quality" armor and set that as your requirement for the 405th. Movie quality armor can hold up to close inspection and look semi-"realistic". Paper, cardboard, fiberglass, or rubber.....it should be movie quality to pass for membership. Like I said....

Set paint and/or color requirements. Set quality requirements. Set a standard...

 

[DogWizard]

We're not talking about kicking people out....but letting people in.

I think that may be the best single sentence in this entire thread. I don't think that anyone advocates booting a bunch of people off of the forum but active public representitives of the 405th will need to be held to the highest standards...

 

[xalener]

If anyone actually got that joke, I might just cry. XD

 

[BishopX]

OMG.....uh.....that is um.......AWFUL.

 

[rowan]

The funny thing is at least 10% of our members are under th age of 16 lol. And i did a bit of research and the last count of the 501st was a little less then 5,000 members. We could start doing things like the 501st and go to places like comic con and lots of shows and stuff but we would need one leader to set it up and help everyone out. Lol anyone, anyone, anyone, .......... Adam?

as long as ive finished my armor im going to the next armageddon expo with it (the closest thing australia will get to comic-con).
last year there was a 501st group there with a stand, i should have talked to them more...

if we ever do all get together and have at least 300 people with suits.. (anyone see were im going?)
we could make a live action rendition of 300 spartans... but we will look way cooler

 

[Rob]

Hi I just posted in the Gen. about a table at Dragon-Con or space in one of my booths. Do you think thats a good start....


rob

 

[SpartanForever]

Hey everybody, ive been away for a while as i have just lost my mom to lung cancer... anyways thats awesome rob that is probably the best thing we can do right now to get us recognized. A little bit off topic, the reason the 501st is so big and all have nice costumes is because they have vendors (or sort o like that) that sell at a higher rate then or mjolnir suits do, and the storm trooper suit is much easier to make then a mjolnir suit is. And no one should doubt that... but once again we have lots of time and we have lots of room for expanding.

 

[xalener]

OMG.....uh.....that is um.......AWFUL.

Don't even start.
I'm serious.

 

[antfour]

501st little weapens are no match against my sparten laser

 

[Vrogy]

501st little weapens are no match against my sparten laser

Can we get this topic locked? I think everything for every viewpoint has been said, several times now, and it's starting to accumulate crap.

 

[Primal Weyland]

Agreed. Basic point is:

405th =/= 501st, and never will.

 

[Keegan]

We could, but probably not very soon... yes this needs lockage

 

[cabbage]

Before you lock this one down,

Im an ex-501st member in the UK, there are a growing number of people leaving the 501st here basicly because it become too big to support the "individual" entity. There are at least a dozen or more in the last few months calling it a day. It went from a fun group to a big organisation, not that thats a bad thing as Success is too be enjoyed.

The problem is that the fun gets drained out of it and its becomes a drag rather than a buzz when too many ego`s are in the same forum together. What you have here on the 405th is a good buzz, try not to let i slip away as it gets bigger.

Im not slating the 501st at all, i was member 26 here in the UK 6 years ago and there are now over 200 members. Kudos to them.