"Help!" for: Fiberglassing, Resin, & Bondo

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I mean, you CAN do pepakura, it's just a lot harder arguably.

If you want another good (Woo! Self promotion!) example, you can see my needler. I haven't had time to put a lot of work into lately, as I've been moving and working full time, buuut it does show some process for pepakura weapons:

http://www.405th.com/showthread.php/36421-A-spoonful-of-Blamite-helps-the-ownage-go-down!

Its really good and coming along nicely but how are you gonna put it back together, I was always curious on what to use for that kind of thing.
 
I have been seen tons of tutorials for fiberglassing helmets and armor but not for weapons so can someone plz help I want to strengthen my weapons but don't know how to do it properly. Help this forsaken noob please.

There are some great pep weapons out there, but you have to take some time looking through a lot of threads. True, pep guns are fine to resin, but hard to glass. Katsu's answer is spot-on for making and detailing a prop. It will display well, but depending on what you want to do with the prop, it may be too brittle to take to a con or any other event where it is likely to get rough handling. You could split the halves on a band saw after Rondoing, glass the insides in traditional fashion, then rejoin the halves to make a tough as nails prop. When detailing the exterior of a gun, I use to body filler that has glass fibers in it. This is the best to resist chipping. I don't think the glass content is significant enough to dilute into a Rondo that is significantly stronger than the standard mix however. You can also use the pep gun as a blank to make molds used to cast the weapon in more resilient materials. Refer to my Splaser for how NOT to do that well.

Another track to look at is using the pep files to make patterns for plastic. Look over Zarnel's Splaser to see what I'm talking about.

Finally, whatever you do, resist the temptation to fill it with expanding foam unless you want your piece to look like a puffer fish. The foam keeps expanding after the exit holes seal.

Redshirt
 
Its really good and coming along nicely but how are you gonna put it back together, I was always curious on what to use for that kind of thing.

I am ultimately going to vacuum form the "shell" parts while mold casting the main body and mouth. In order to make the parts attach happily, it will involve cleaning up the seams a lot, similar to what people do for visor fittings:
http://www.405th.com/showthread.php/33249-JFO

Scroll to the bottom and you will see how he tapes the visor and then fills the helmet to cup the visor perfectly.

There are some great pep weapons out there, but you have to take some time looking through a lot of threads. True, pep guns are fine to resin, but hard to glass. Katsu's answer is spot-on for making and detailing a prop. It will display well, but depending on what you want to do with the prop, it may be too brittle to take to a con or any other event where it is likely to get rough handling. You could split the halves on a band saw after Rondoing, glass the insides in traditional fashion, then rejoin the halves to make a tough as nails prop. When detailing the exterior of a gun, I use to body filler that has glass fibers in it. This is the best to resist chipping. I don't think the glass content is significant enough to dilute into a Rondo that is significantly stronger than the standard mix however. You can also use the pep gun as a blank to make molds used to cast the weapon in more resilient materials. Refer to my Splaser for how NOT to do that well.

Another track to look at is using the pep files to make patterns for plastic. Look over Zarnel's Splaser to see what I'm talking about.

Finally, whatever you do, resist the temptation to fill it with expanding foam unless you want your piece to look like a puffer fish. The foam keeps expanding after the exit holes seal.

Redshirt

Also to assassin, what redshirt said is awesome. Rondo weapons are garbage for strength. I was taking a picture of my needler, and I set it down on the table a bit too hard and one of the prongs on the mouth snapped off. You make the rondo weapon and either expect it to last one convention, or you use it as a master mold to print off copies. Or take a bunch of steps to reinforce the rondo weapon, but to me that's a bit too much work, and there are certain weapons where it's just not possible. Like you can't (easily) fiberglass a lot of the mouth parts of the needler.

I used expanding foam, but only after I rondoed the inner walls. This was so I could seal off the gaping holes in the needler's main body, so when I mold casted it the silicone won't just be flooding into the middle of the body.

A lot of weapons don't need to be split apart. I did it for the needler A) to facilitate cooler mold casting so I can have the different parts be cast in different base colors and materials, and it's easier to cast a broken-apart piece than a fully assembled one (though less so in this case) B) To make smoothing and detailing the needler's tight, hard to reach complicated areas a lot easier. and C) To facilitate my own personal needs to modify the piece away from the pep file. And there was a lot of modifying going on there.
 
Sorry, didn't read through the last page of posts. I'm at work & just decided to take a quick small break. I did look through Katsu link of the needler! Looks awesome!!!! I'm going to have to read everything later. Just haven't been able to get on here.

Also, quick update. I started the resin stage for the MKVI helmet. Partial resin only & it started to some apart on the top. So now it isn't good. I'm ether going to A) Try to fix it to make it look normal or B) Alter it to a battle damage area.

I'm leaning towards B. Just need a weekend to sit down & think of how to do it. I don't have a camera to take pics...well...I do have my phone to do that. Just need to found out hot to upload it on here then!

I also need to check out this site more. Haven't gotten a chance to do that as well. Want to see what everyone has been up too. I like to check out people's project. Makes it a more motivational to get you're own stuff done. Which I might put the MKVI helmet on hold. Since I need props for Con in a few months & the helmet was going to be one of them. Thinking of not since it's a bit big.

Again, the needler looks awesome!!! I'LL BE BACK MWHAHAHAHA!!!
 
I am ultimately going to vacuum form the "shell" parts while mold casting the main body and mouth. In order to make the parts attach happily, it will involve cleaning up the seams a lot, similar to what people do for visor fittings:
http://www.405th.com/showthread.php/33249-JFO

Scroll to the bottom and you will see how he tapes the visor and then fills the helmet to cup the visor perfectly.



Also to assassin, what redshirt said is awesome. Rondo weapons are garbage for strength. I was taking a picture of my needler, and I set it down on the table a bit too hard and one of the prongs on the mouth snapped off. You make the rondo weapon and either expect it to last one convention, or you use it as a master mold to print off copies. Or take a bunch of steps to reinforce the rondo weapon, but to me that's a bit too much work, and there are certain weapons where it's just not possible. Like you can't (easily) fiberglass a lot of the mouth parts of the needler.

I used expanding foam, but only after I rondoed the inner walls. This was so I could seal off the gaping holes in the needler's main body, so when I mold casted it the silicone won't just be flooding into the middle of the body.

A lot of weapons don't need to be split apart. I did it for the needler A) to facilitate cooler mold casting so I can have the different parts be cast in different base colors and materials, and it's easier to cast a broken-apart piece than a fully assembled one (though less so in this case) B) To make smoothing and detailing the needler's tight, hard to reach complicated areas a lot easier. and C) To facilitate my own personal needs to modify the piece away from the pep file. And there was a lot of modifying going on there.

Thanks for your help on my weapon delema, I'm probably just gonna make silicone molds but what materials would be best to fill the molds, and I just thought of an easy way to make a visor but I need someone to run a test for me, I need to test the clarity of straight resin, (since it doesn't stick to tin foil you could brush a thin layer on it wait for it to cure then take it out and check the clarity) but like I said it was just a thought and if someone actually tests it I could continue with the rest of the thought.
 
Thanks for your help on my weapon delema, I'm probably just gonna make silicone molds but what materials would be best to fill the molds, and I just thought of an easy way to make a visor but I need someone to run a test for me, I need to test the clarity of straight resin, (since it doesn't stick to tin foil you could brush a thin layer on it wait for it to cure then take it out and check the clarity) but like I said it was just a thought and if someone actually tests it I could continue with the rest of the thought.

I'll say upfront, it is generally frowned upon too essentially reply to yourself twice making three posts in a row from you. It's sort of bumping even though this is a sticky. You have an edit button you can use in the future to add stuff!

I think you may be getting ahead of yourself also. Take it one step at a time and don't overload yourself or you'll end up in over your head and giving up out of frustration.

Now... to address the issues.

Mold making is great, but it is VERY expensive to do. You're going to be looking at forking out a couple hundred bucks to make a copy of a pistol. There is also a lot that can go wrong, so a lot of experience and practice with it is vital as well. Even the best mold makers run into problems, and I am not sure you have even started pepping yet.

Trust me when I say, getting from pep to ready-for-molds is going to take you a few weeks. I'd start a build thread if I were you, and start actually making the stuff before you start preparing to do final steps to something that doesn't exist yet! As you make it, you may find that your needs for the piece change, like when I started the needler, I was expecting to just have it be a single final piece, but as I messed with it I saw the need to cut it apart, which meant I had to consider how I was going to reattach everything, and it was a long road to deciding I was going to vacuum form and mold cast it.

---

As to resin visors, I'll stop you right there and say don't bother. The resin is not strong enough to serve as a visor, nor is it clear enough. Without a matrix (fiberglass, fabric etc), resin is floppy and weak, but if you add those matrices you lose visibility.

This is another case where I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Make the helmet first, get pictures up so we can see what you're doing and better help you out, and once the helmet is under way you can start thinking about visors.

Depending on which one you're making, almost every instance calls for just buying a cheap motorcycle visor off the internet instead. It will give you that cool, mirrored look where people can't see into it, but you can see out, and amazon has them for about 8$ so they are WAY cheaper than making your own. Making your own visor is only really worthwhile if you have access to a vacuum forming machine, and a lot of time and money, as they'll set you back a lot in materials costs.

I am not trying to be mean, I just want you to understand that a lot of your plans are a bit further down the road than you are ready for, we want to help you get a good helmet going, but you have to start it first! Maybe you have, but we'd really need a build thread started so we could see how it's coming along, and better give tips on where to go with the visor and gun.
 
Katsu has it exactly right, don't go spending money on materials you're not ready for (moldmaking, visor, etc). Get some Peps under your belt as most people end up remaking their first piece a couple of times as they build their skills. Only then is it worth looking at moldmaking. I'll also second the visor commentary. Resin is clear, but not strong, and will not flow out smooth enough to be able to see through.

Redshirt
 
Hey redshirt! You're a Star Trek fan, aren't you! I'll make sure they put one of your suit on when they put you in the ground...or wall... unless you want flames? Then, I'll take your stuff, lol!

I know I'm going to be asking this late when I get there. How do you peps put the visor in the helmet>? Not sure of what I'm thinking is how it should be done. Don't want it to pop out or mess up to much on it since the helmet came apart a little during resin. Which I need to still finish the resin part.

And no, I haven't looked on here to see if there is anything on it. Like I said, not worry about it right now, but I will be.

And I 2nd Katsu & Redshirt on the mold making part. I want to do that as well. Never had done that. But I rather get the pep all done first & a few of them so I can be good at. And like they said, it is very costly! I rather have
the mold of it than the paper. But take whet you can at this time until you get good enough.

Oh, and Assassin. You're right!

Give Cereal killer videos a watch to get some tips. The link is a few pages back. Katsu provided the link on it.
 
I'll say upfront, it is generally frowned upon too essentially reply to yourself twice making three posts in a row from you. It's sort of bumping even though this is a sticky. You have an edit button you can use in the future to add stuff!

I think you may be getting ahead of yourself also. Take it one step at a time and don't overload yourself or you'll end up in over your head and giving up out of frustration.

Now... to address the issues.

Mold making is great, but it is VERY expensive to do. You're going to be looking at forking out a couple hundred bucks to make a copy of a pistol. There is also a lot that can go wrong, so a lot of experience and practice with it is vital as well. Even the best mold makers run into problems, and I am not sure you have even started pepping yet.

Trust me when I say, getting from pep to ready-for-molds is going to take you a few weeks. I'd start a build thread if I were you, and start actually making the stuff before you start preparing to do final steps to something that doesn't exist yet! As you make it, you may find that your needs for the piece change, like when I started the needler, I was expecting to just have it be a single final piece, but as I messed with it I saw the need to cut it apart, which meant I had to consider how I was going to reattach everything, and it was a long road to deciding I was going to vacuum form and mold cast it.

---

As to resin visors, I'll stop you right there and say don't bother. The resin is not strong enough to serve as a visor, nor is it clear enough. Without a matrix (fiberglass, fabric etc), resin is floppy and weak, but if you add those matrices you lose visibility.

This is another case where I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Make the helmet first, get pictures up so we can see what you're doing and better help you out, and once the helmet is under way you can start thinking about visors.

Depending on which one you're making, almost every instance calls for just buying a cheap motorcycle visor off the internet instead. It will give you that cool, mirrored look where people can't see into it, but you can see out, and amazon has them for about 8$ so they are WAY cheaper than making your own. Making your own visor is only really worthwhile if you have access to a vacuum forming machine, and a lot of time and money, as they'll set you back a lot in materials costs.

I am not trying to be mean, I just want you to understand that a lot of your plans are a bit further down the road than you are ready for, we want to help you get a good helmet going, but you have to start it first! Maybe you have, but we'd really need a build thread started so we could see how it's coming along, and better give tips on where to go with the visor and gun.

I am kind of a noob to the forums and couldn't take out the last 2 comments, I didn't mean to write three but something happened and it lagged ( couldn't think of a better word), I was also pretty much just giving ideas I had just thought of and needed to write it down (sorry about that), I was gonna start a thread but ran into 3 problems: 1. I wouldn't know what to put it under and 2. I'm going to be gone for 10 days with almost no possibility of posting anything I will be busy until July 8, and 3. I don't have anymore resin or cloth so I couldn't even do anything. You were kind of right the pieces are built but not fiberglassed I might be able to get pictures by tomorrow but that's stretching my limitations due to the fact I'll be preparing all day. And I know your not being mean and even if you were I wouldn't care you have been on here longer , know more and I respect your opinions and I respect you for taking the time out of YOUR day and helping people like me I have never strengthened weapons or made visors really the only two areas I need help on at the current moment and you have taught me that peping weapons is pretty much the hardest way to go and have proved I know one way how not to make a visor so thanks for the help you've given me and the almost inevatable help to come.
 
I have a question.

I've been having a real tough time with fiberglass resin becoming sticky after I put it on the card stock paper.

I think it may be the brand I am using, but when I used Bondo fiberglass resin it worked perfectly and cured fast with no problems, even with a small amount of hardener in cold weather it still cured up nice and quick. Now I am using Rust Check fiberglass resin because they were out of the Bondo brand and I've had different results.

Nothing has dried at all, 90% of the parts I would use this fiberglass resin on are still sticky to this day (1.5 weeks later) and I've tried everything I can think of to get them to cure hard and it's just not working. I tried so far:

- doing another coat with more hardener
- doing a coat purely of harder on a paintbrush
- doing a coat with HEAVY hardener to the point where the stuff bricked in 10 minutes

and still the paper is sticky. I think it may be the brand I'm using and I should go back to Bondo brand, hopefully if I lay on a new coat with the bondo resin I will finally have a good layer so I can fiberglass my parts, because it is becoming incredibly frustrating and I hope I don't have to redo all these parts because literally it's half of the suit I'm making.

Can you guys help? Maybe offer anymore ideas? I am probably going to throw the rest of the Rust Check brand crap in the garbage but let me know if you guys have had similar problems etc.
 
Assuming you got their polyester resin, you should be fine. I would carefully read their directions and make sure you're using the right TYPE of hardener.

Two things you can try... the first is to hot box it. Resin primarily cures via heat, which the catalyst facilitates. It is possible to try and coax that process along by sticking it in a box with a hairdryer running inside. This method is used by people up in Canada and the likes who get colder winters, to help their pieces cure when they shouldn't be able to.

The second method... I don't remember where I heard it, but I've HEARD some people use some powder of some kind to help just remove the tackiness. This is just for the residual tackiness resin can have.

If your piece is just a little tacky, then it is cured, just being dumb... If it's full on wet, then you have problems. If it's not, you can try lightly sanding it, sometimes the very topmost layer refuses to cure, and you just have to remove it.. It all depends on how bad it is.

Bad sticky would be... leaves stick and can't be pulled off, Okay sticky is it catches your finger a little when you drag your finger over it, but doesn't full on grab you.
 
Assuming you got their polyester resin, you should be fine. I would carefully read their directions and make sure you're using the right TYPE of hardener.

Two things you can try... the first is to hot box it. Resin primarily cures via heat, which the catalyst facilitates. It is possible to try and coax that process along by sticking it in a box with a hairdryer running inside. This method is used by people up in Canada and the likes who get colder winters, to help their pieces cure when they shouldn't be able to.

The second method... I don't remember where I heard it, but I've HEARD some people use some powder of some kind to help just remove the tackiness. This is just for the residual tackiness resin can have.

If your piece is just a little tacky, then it is cured, just being dumb... If it's full on wet, then you have problems. If it's not, you can try lightly sanding it, sometimes the very topmost layer refuses to cure, and you just have to remove it.. It all depends on how bad it is.

Bad sticky would be... leaves stick and can't be pulled off, Okay sticky is it catches your finger a little when you drag your finger over it, but doesn't full on grab you.


Thanks for the response, I am going to try the hotboxing idea later tomorrow when I do my final piece in resin.

I was wondering as well if I was using the wrong type of hardener but it is the one that was packaged with it, so it should be fine.

It just confuses me that the Bondo brand stuff worked perfect without any tackiness whatsoever and I'm having such a difficult time with this. I do live in Canada and we haven't had any sun yet on the west coast yet, maybe 3 days in a row last month but we get screwed for sun in my area, and it's living in a garage that can keep cans of soda at cold temps so it may be just too darn cold in there.

I'm gonna try the hotbox idea almost right away.
 
Hey Katsu, Lornex's post made me remember that the first time I used the resin and fiberglass I let it cure but when I came back it smelled like it never dried. I even let it set for two more days total I didn't leave it for two days straight I checked until there wasn't a smell which was 3 days later. What happened ?
 
Man I can't believe how well the hotbox worked

I put a buncha parts in a box and blow dried then in about 15 mins and now they are ready to be glassed! Couldn't be happier!
 
Man I can't believe how well the hotbox worked

I put a buncha parts in a box and blow dried then in about 15 mins and now they are ready to be glassed! Couldn't be happier!

I am glad it worked out for you. Just be careful especially if the weather up there is bad. Wouldn't want a blowdryer out if it started raining. And I do hope this isn't being done inside! Unless it's a well sealed off garage, we've seen some horror stories come out of indor resining.


Hey Katsu, Lornex's post made me remember that the first time I used the resin and fiberglass I let it cure but when I came back it smelled like it never dried. I even let it set for two more days total I didn't leave it for two days straight I checked until there wasn't a smell which was 3 days later. What happened ?

In my experiences at least, resin will stink for a very long time. It took my ODST helmet a month before it wasn't permeating odors, and even now still has a bit of a smell when it's worn. What I find works well is to just seal the stuff. Once you are satisfied with the inside, get a good thick primer paint (I'd imagine waterproof ones would seal better) and hose the inside with it, and let it cure overnight. I did that one my MkV and it just smells faintly of paint, which is a lot better than toxic resins.
 
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