Pepakura Fiberglass and Smoothing Tutorial

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wasntme said:
Nice write up but please allow me to inform you and the other members on a few things missed and incorrect.



First....fiberglass cloth and matte does not have shards of glass in it like fiberglass insulation. So it is perfectly fine to handle with bare hands in it's raw form...meaning has not been coated with resin. After it is have been coated it is BEST to use a respirator when grinding on fiberglass. Also good to do it a well ventilated area. Now hardened fiberglass can cause itchiness. This is from tiny fibers being embedded in the skin. If this happens I find the best solution is to take a very hot shower. As hot as you possibly can stand for 10 minutes or so. Then using a wash cloth or similar scrub arms in a downward motion. This will pull the fibers out...at least most of them. The hot waters causes the pores to open and release the fibers. Once done scrubbing switch the water to cold to close the pores.



In the tutorial you mention to apply a coat of resin once the first coat is hard but do not mention using a cloth with the resin. Resin should not be applied without using a cloth, matte, or filler agent mixed into the resin. Resin alone is brittle, provides no extra strength, and does provide extra useless weight. So if you were saying to apply resin only this is not a good idea. Also you said not to worry about how well the glass lays down. That is a HUGE mistake when doing a lay up (lay up means applying fiberglass resin to anything). When you are doing a lay up you should ALWAYS do your best to get the cloth to lay down as smoothly as possible along with NO air bubbles. The reason for this is the more time you spend getting the glass to lay down smooth the less time you will spend grinding on the glass. The reason for no air bubbles is because an air bubble is a weak spot in the final product along with a great spot for delamination to start. That is where the layers of glass start to separate from each other. Essentially making the item fall apart. Also when doing a lay up you only want to use as much resin needed to "wet out" the cloth. This means to fully saturate the cloth with resin but not have puddles or big drips. Again...this excess resin only serves as added weight.



A huge pointer is to not to mess around with trying to get fiberglass smooth. Fiberglass is intended to be the structural material. A good body filler (aka bondo) should be used to make the part smooth. I never sand fiberglass with anything smoother then 80 grit and that is being generous. Usually I use 36 grit and move onto the body filler.



No some info on resins and to answer a question from another member. You really should not purchase resin from Home Depot, Lowe's, or auto parts stores. Try to find a local boat supplier or fiberglass supplier. The reason for this is polyester resin has a short shelf life and you do not know how long it has been sitting on the shelf of the big box store. Also generally your materials will cost less if you purchase from a fiberglass supplier. A member asked about mixing resin with MEKP (the hardener) to go along with his climate. Climate is a HUGE factor when mixing the resin. If it is very hot outside or humid you need to use less MEKP then if it was very cold outside. If you use too much MEKP the resin can do many different things including catch fire. Too little MEKP and the mixture will never cure. I recommend doing a sample mix or mixes to determine the proper amount of MEKP to resin ratio. Also for giggles if you want make sure you do this OUTSIDE away from anything that could be ruined...mix a ratio of 1:1 resin and MEKP....then step way back. It will not exploded but it will get wicked hot, put off a horrible odor, and melt the cup it is in. Do this at your own risk but it will show just what will happen if you mix too much MEKP and resin together.



Just a FYI to everyone..Bondo is a company that produces auto body products. Body filler is a the actual product you want to use to get your parts smooth. I also suggest you find a local auto body supplier/paint supplier and purchase some high quality body filler instead of using the Bondo brand from Home Depot. Rage Extreme is my personal favorite but there are a few others that are much easier to use then Bondo brand. When I say easier to use I mean they are easier to spread because they are more creamy...compare cream cheese to mayonnaise...and they are easier to sand.



Someone also mentioned using old T shirts or grill cloth instead of fiberglass cloth. They also mentioned they used those materials in car audio. Well those materials were used in car audio for one reason only. They could be stretched and shaped around a form. Once the first coat of resin was applied to the grill cloth and hardened, additional coats of fiberglass cloth had to be layed down to give the item strength. I have personally used this technique hundreds of times and it works well in that application. In this application it would work very poorly. The reason being is you would spend for more time applying layer after layer of T shirt material or grill cloth to achieve the same strength as two layers of the proper cloth. Cloth will cost a few bucks more but will save tons of time and achieve a better final product.



I hope this info helps everyone and just a small tidbit about myself and where I have come up with this information. I have been working with fiberglass and body fillers extensively for the past 20 years.





what he said +1
 
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well even if he says it's ok to handle fiberglass barehanded i don't think i will considering it specifically tells us NOT to on the canisters, thanks for all the tidbits though.
 
Yuki-Kedamono said:
well even if he says it's ok to handle fiberglass barehanded i don't think i will considering it specifically tells us NOT to on the canisters, thanks for all the tidbits though.





I do believe I said fiberglass cloth that has not been coated with resin. I did not say to handle resin without gloves. The cloth has no ill effects to your skin when it is in it's raw form. When you use the resin it is a very good idea to wear gloves. As for what it says on the "canister" I am guessing you are looking at the container for the resin. Resin is the one part of the liquid form of fiberglass. The other part is MEKP or the "hardener" or "activator". The cloth is no different then handling a T shirt. Matte is more messy then cloth but again in it is fine to handle bare handed.



It is NEVER a bad idea to use protective clothing like gloves. My point is that a person should not be afraid to handle the cloth with bare hands because they might get itchy or it is "bad" for them.
 
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wasntme said:
I do believe I said fiberglass cloth that has not been coated with resin. I did not say to handle resin without gloves. The cloth has no ill effects to your skin when it is in it's raw form. When you use the resin it is a very good idea to wear gloves. As for what it says on the "canister" I am guessing you are looking at the container for the resin. Resin is the one part of the liquid form of fiberglass. The other part is MEKP or the "hardener" or "activator". The cloth is no different then handling a T shirt. Matte is more messy then cloth but again in it is fine to handle bare handed.



It is NEVER a bad idea to use protective clothing like gloves. My point is that a person should not be afraid to handle the cloth with bare hands because they might get itchy or it is "bad" for them.



no no no i WAS meaning the resin an the other materials needed, not the clothe, hahaha. the clothe is just plain clothe i see no issues with handling that. i usually take my gloves off to cut the specific pieces i need so i don't get the sticky resin mess on it an my scissors.
 
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Yuki-Kedamono said:
no no no i WAS meaning the resin an the other materials needed, not the clothe, hahaha. the clothe is just plain clothe i see no issues with handling that. i usually take my gloves off to cut the specific pieces i need so i don't get the sticky resin mess on it an my scissors.





Gummed up scissors sucks. You know what also works great is a good paper cutter. For some of the work I do with fiberglass I need tons of small pieces. I use a paper cutter to cut the pieces. The cutter works great and has far less fray then using scissors.



You should keep some lacquer thinner near by when you use fiberglass. If you get resin on something the thinner will take it right off as long it is still in a liquid state. you can even clean and re-use brushes with the thinner. If there is a auto body supply shop in your area you can pick up wash grade thinner from them. It works better then the stuff from Home Depot. It cuts faster, evaporates quicker, and it does not leave behind a film. Chances are it will cost less also. I believe I pay just over 20 bucks for a 5 gallon pale from my local place.
 
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I just remembered another good trick. Put on two pairs of gloves...one on top of the other. I do this when I am doing a large lay up that I know is going to get messy. When the first pair is too messy I peel those off and have a clean pair underneath. It ends up being quicker and cleaner then grabbing another pair of gloves.
 
wasntme said:
I just remembered another good trick. Put on two pairs of gloves...one on top of the other. I do this when I am doing a large lay up that I know is going to get messy. When the first pair is too messy I peel those off and have a clean pair underneath. It ends up being quicker and cleaner then grabbing another pair of gloves.



yea no kiddin i go through dozens of gloves at a time o_O lol
 
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So how would you go about fibreglassing an object with no reachable inside? For the sake of this question lets say you make a pep cube, you can resin the outside fine, but you have no way of reaching the inside to fibreglass it....how would you solved this problem?





would you need to try and cut the cube into two allowing you to fibreglass inside? Or is there something else that can be done?
 
umbr44 said:
So how would you go about fibreglassing an object with no reachable inside? For the sake of this question lets say you make a pep cube, you can resin the outside fine, but you have no way of reaching the inside to fibreglass it....how would you solved this problem?





would you need to try and cut the cube into two allowing you to fibreglass inside? Or is there something else that can be done?





I think it was skullcandy girl that had a tutorial about using expanding foam. You can resin coat something with 2 or 3 layers, drill a hole through the side, fill with expanding foam, cut off the excess that spills out of the hole, sand, finish. The only trick is getting it to fill every little corner, but at the same time not overfill.
 
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mks81 said:
I think it was skullcandy girl that had a tutorial about using expanding foam. You can resin coat something with 2 or 3 layers, drill a hole through the side, fill with expanding foam, cut off the excess that spills out of the hole, sand, finish. The only trick is getting it to fill every little corner, but at the same time not overfill.





Aye thankyou, I'll look that thread up. Only I saw the pepakura pelican, and well, with it's size (Which I don't want to scale down ;) ) it would definitly need a bit more re-inforcment than just using the resin coat.
 
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I read through this a few months ago and just decided to dive into it. I started with easy pieces to re-make in case I messed up! I have a few more suggestions too from my experience but if someone can suggest other better ways, I'm all ears!



Fiberglass Cloth: I've found that fiber glassing w/ the cloth is one of the most frustrating and 'emotional' experiences of the process. I find it an absolute mess!!! The cloth frays on every edge making little pieces come off all over. They stick to your gloves, which in turn sticks back to the cloth you laid pulling it up! *AHHHHH* Maybe I'm using cheep cloth, but it was all that's available at Home Depot. Unfortunately I don't know where to get higher grade stuff. Not really sure there's any auto or Marinas around.



In the end I think I'm doing an okay hack job, but I'm just muscling through it as best I can. I'm running out of cloth and decided to try Mat this time. It looks like it won't fray and I can cut it into more manageable pieces. If anyone advises against this, please let me know. It'll be about another day before I need to open it.



Gloves: I started using the disposable latex gloves. They're about $8 for 100 and I'm sure you can get them for much less if you look. The larger, thicker gloves I used for the exterior rosin just did not work for the more detailed interior work. When I lay the pieces down I can rub then down flat, bump out the air bubbles, fill in the edges, etc much better than non-disposable ones. Some places I find it's just easier to dump some of the rosin onto the area and use my hands to work it in.



Brushes: I started with 3 $.99 2" brushes and some Acetone. I got about 4-5 uses from a brush but was going through a lot of Acetone. At the rate I was going, each application with a brush was costing about $.60. Not too bad, but I found a box of 300 foam brushes online for $55. I don't like the idea of just using them once, but I simply couldn't afford the alternative.



I agree with wasntme (if I remember right). I don't use thick coats of rosin. I put down a slightly thicker base coat and when I rub the cloth on it's almost saturated as is. Then I'll lightly coat the top and work it in some more to get all the white out and remove air bubbles. GET OUT THE BUBBLES! I haven't had to start sanding but I can easily see why. I think the latex gloves and working in with your hands is a good approach.



I mix about 2oz of rosin per batch and have some cheep $.60 plastic container with graduations on the side to measure. it's not that accurate, but you can guesstimate rather easy. I also put in about 2 drops less of the hardner than called for. It says 14 drops/oz, I put in 12. maybe a few extra if I happen to make 3-4oz. I find it still sets just well but gives me a min or so extra curing time which helps a lot!



Keep a clean and open workspace! The fiberglass cloth gets EVERYWHERE! Have a working area and a drying area. Keep the drying area clear of cloth strands, they'll find a way to harden to the outside of the pieces and make it a hassle to sand down.



I think that's about it. I haven't started on the helmet yet, just have about 1/3-1/2 of the body done w/ a first coat. Not looking forward to the helmet. Thinking I'll doing smaller areas.



Question for everyone though: How do you mold the cloth inside some of the really small valleys. For instance in the Hi-def mark V helmet the back has all those small lines. Do you just fill it with rosin? I can't imagine being able to get the cloth in there...
 
Stealthkiller24 said:
Uh oh see i resined the inside and the outside was i only supposed to do the inside well ima sand it and see if i like what i got after words



You did it right. First I resin'd the outside to strengthen the paper, then resin'd with the cloth/mat inside. I think if you just resin both sides without the cloth/mat, it's extremely likely to break/crack. Just the resin alone is very brittle and you need the cloth to reinforce it.
 
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agroom said:
You did it right. First I resin'd the outside to strengthen the paper, then resin'd with the cloth/mat inside. I think if you just resin both sides without the cloth/mat, it's extremely likely to break/crack. Just the resin alone is very brittle and you need the cloth to reinforce it.



Actually, you can resin both sides just fine without any trouble, as long as you don't do more than 1 or 2 layers. It'll be slightly less flexible, but still a little bendy. Then, adding fiberglass and more resin to the inside of the piece will make it rock solid.
 
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so far i've experimented with carefully adding a bit of resin an clothe to the outside as well, if you coat the clothe well enough you can form it anyway you want an though it takes away the minute details of the pepakura it keeps the overall shape so long as you keep the bubbles out. i've done it for all of my pieces so far an they are very durable even at this point, all i've left to do is fiberglass then start working into the painting phase on the pieces i' nearly finished with.



I won't be putting the cloth on the outside of my helmet, and chest pieces though. just to save for better detail ^^
 
So What do you due for Brushes? Do you need a special kind or something? Because when I did some resining I couldn't find a way to clean the brush and had to just let it harden and throw it away. I know this is kind of an old thread but I hope someone notices and can help me out! it sucks if you have to just buy a bunch of brushes.
 
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