2008 presidential elections
- Thread starter SpartanForever
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SpartanForever said:
Logical Fallacy: Over Generalization
I Live in Utah... there activly passing laws to let Gays get 'partnered' and blacks have been allowed and have held positions in the church for over 20 years
(no im not mornmon, Nor the accepted and correct term LSD)
I dont like Romney because He's layed off over 40k people and is too corporate for me... His character just isnt for me.
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Newspartancreator
Member
Mc Cain.... everyine one else seems to be to worried about there Public image... He takes the hits, and keeps going...
silvercookie
Well-Known Member
how come this isnt locked for discussing politics.?
it thought it was against the rules?
it thought it was against the rules?
Newspartancreator said:
I believe it's McCain
Anyhow, yes, I am a minor, but only by a year. So i'll miss out slightly on this election, but I don't think that matters.
Did anyone else see that there are more teenagers and younger students voting and getting involved in the election more than ever?
This is a GREAT thing.
Politics by no means should just be something that old people talk about. Americans should embrace their right to vote, their right to make a difference. To change. By starting at an early age, we get a jump start on future years to come, and don't illiterate ourselves.
I think Obama has brought the younger crowd in.
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I saw on this on the previous page, and have to clear it up: America is a republic, NOT a democracy.
Might I remind you that many Democrats supported the war in Iraq in the beginning. May I also point out that although Hillary and Barack want to pull troops out of Iraq, they want to redeploy them to Iran.
I used to be Republican, but now they're really just like the democrats: they support big government, domestic spying, socialist-style education and health care, amnesty for illegals, etc. I support Ron Paul, because I, like he, am a Constitutionalist. Ron Paul is the ultimate conservative: he wants to abolish the income tax, the CIA, the FBI, the DOHS, the Federal Reserve, end wiretapping re-instate the gold standard, actually enforce our immigration laws, and restore the checks and balances that have been virtually destroyed over the past few decades. Before I receive a lot of hate mail about how he's an extremist or a radical, first answer me this: where in the Constitution does it allow the federal government to spy on its citizens or print fiat paper money or tax income?
The reason so many minors are interested in politics is because their educated and they care. I think it's great that so many are taking an interest in the workings of our country. Our government is broken, and people are realising this and trying to fix it.
Might I remind you that many Democrats supported the war in Iraq in the beginning. May I also point out that although Hillary and Barack want to pull troops out of Iraq, they want to redeploy them to Iran.
I used to be Republican, but now they're really just like the democrats: they support big government, domestic spying, socialist-style education and health care, amnesty for illegals, etc. I support Ron Paul, because I, like he, am a Constitutionalist. Ron Paul is the ultimate conservative: he wants to abolish the income tax, the CIA, the FBI, the DOHS, the Federal Reserve, end wiretapping re-instate the gold standard, actually enforce our immigration laws, and restore the checks and balances that have been virtually destroyed over the past few decades. Before I receive a lot of hate mail about how he's an extremist or a radical, first answer me this: where in the Constitution does it allow the federal government to spy on its citizens or print fiat paper money or tax income?
The reason so many minors are interested in politics is because their educated and they care. I think it's great that so many are taking an interest in the workings of our country. Our government is broken, and people are realising this and trying to fix it.
kerotan 36
Well-Known Member
I don't think you should have started this thread you are seperating the 405th.
SpartanForever
Member
Ok first off, this is all oppinion. Second, this is not seperating the 405th just learning about each other and having an interesting conversation. And yes Obama has brought in the younger people in. I am 1 year away from voting and i WANT to vote so badly... and all of my friends do to.
SpartanForever
Member
Garland said:
To this, i must say AMERICA WAS FIRST A DEMOCRACY AND WAS THE FIRST DEMOCRACY... read up on your history. And not all democrats supported the war in the first place, that is just a generalization. Some did but most didnt. And now the republicans are not just like the democrats, tey support no child left behind, DEMOCRATS dont want to abolish the IRS they just want to reduce taxes... obama for middle class, hilary for everyone. Also THE DEMOCRATS dO NOT SUPPORT DOMESTIC SPYING.... but i am not fighting just having an intellectual argument.
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SpartanForever said:
I think that sums it up. Political discussions are sometimes very interesting and inisightful. As long as you have intellect behind your debate, and you don't just flame (saying things like blah blah sucks..) then I see no issue in discussing the matter. I mean, hellclown just posted he is all for hillary, in a mostly obama topic. I respect that. Now that might cause me to raise the question, is there a certain reason you favor her? But i'm not going to flame him for liking a candidate I might dislike.
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SpartanForever
Member
Zaso117 said:
exactly, for example if hellclown posts something telling why he likes hillary zaso you can come back with your oppinion on why you dont htink she is a good candidate or whatever you think. It just annoys me when people start making ignorant and non intelligent comments like "your fat and stupid" or "the democrats are dumb because they have a women running". haha no one actaully said those yet but thats what i mean.
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Exactly.
So what is everyone's opinion on Obama's and Clinton's strategic positions at this point in the pesidental race?
In short, how do you think each opponent is doing, how do you think they will do? and why?
This can apply to republicans here, but the democratic race is tighter.
So what is everyone's opinion on Obama's and Clinton's strategic positions at this point in the pesidental race?
In short, how do you think each opponent is doing, how do you think they will do? and why?
This can apply to republicans here, but the democratic race is tighter.
SpartanForever
Member
Zaso117 said:
Well as ive been saying for the past 2 pages... as follows. Hillary got the bigger states and is doing quite well, BUT obama has more states, alot more funding which will allow him to get more campaigning done for the upcoming states AND he got all of the cacuses so far. All of the hillary supporters will go to obama if he gets the vote but if hillary gets the vote the obama supporters will go to a democrat so Obama has a better chance at winning in the long run.
basically Obama rocks!!
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Hillary will probably get the Hispanic vote in texas, which is a big one.
But at the same time Obama will probably take Ohio, Vermont and Pennsylvania
Also, don't forget that Obama took alot of white votes in northern states. Mississippi and Louisiana haven't even voted yet. The African-American vote will help Obama out there. He is averaging around 92% of the Black vote atm.
Another big thing is funding and resources.
Clinton's campaign is running short on cash while Obama's is doing better.
It should be an interesting couple weeks.
On the 9th we will see Louisiana, Nebraska, Washington, and the Virgin Islands.
the Virgin Islands and Louisiana all favor Obama.
Washington and Nebraska are toss ups, if anything, most likely in favor of Hillary. Both are caucuses though, which could add to Obama's triumph in past caucus type states.
But at the same time Obama will probably take Ohio, Vermont and Pennsylvania
Also, don't forget that Obama took alot of white votes in northern states. Mississippi and Louisiana haven't even voted yet. The African-American vote will help Obama out there. He is averaging around 92% of the Black vote atm.
Another big thing is funding and resources.
Clinton's campaign is running short on cash while Obama's is doing better.
It should be an interesting couple weeks.
On the 9th we will see Louisiana, Nebraska, Washington, and the Virgin Islands.
the Virgin Islands and Louisiana all favor Obama.
Washington and Nebraska are toss ups, if anything, most likely in favor of Hillary. Both are caucuses though, which could add to Obama's triumph in past caucus type states.
SpartanForever said:
your actually way off on that one....check this out for the fax...
http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/march-of-democracy.html
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SpartanForever
Member
Xavier said:
No is it is right, America is the first united form of democracy.
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nappyharedazn
New Member
I won't go into politics too much, but I just wanted to clear things up.
Even if we pull out of Iraq, the troops won't be coming home like some politicians claim. They will either be sent to A-stan, Iran, or Pakistan. Why? Because the world is in the beginning stages of WWIII. Now, I realize that I sound like a conspiracy nut (as a matter of fact, I hate conspiracies and find them to be a big waste of time), but the fact of the matter is that we (and I mean the American people) have really screwed ourselves up? Why? Two words, buddy. Two word.
FOSSIL FUEL.
America consumes a vast majority of the world's fossil fuels, while supplying less than 10% (not even really sure if that number's right, as I seem to have trouble finding my sources). Scientists predict that another viable source of energy will be discovered/perfected in the next 50 years or so . . . but global oil production is expected to peak in the next few years (as in we as a planet will start to see a massive decline in oil and a massive increase in oil prices).
Do I believe that Bush and the neo-Conservatives (note how I point out the neo-cons, not the entire Republican party) are to blame for the war in the Middle East? Yes and no. While they played a major part, I still feel that the real blame lies with the American public. They talk about how bad the war is, but they still drive around in their Hummers and watch the Super Bowl on their 60", power sucking LCD screen (BTW, despite "common knowledge," energy is the biggest user of fossil fuel in the United States, not automobiles). Cheney himself said in a speech to the House that "we are entering a war that will not end in our lifetimes" (or something like that). Basically, what he's saying is that WWIII has started, it'll be a fight over natural resources, and it's not going to end for quite a while. Watch "End of Suburbia." It's all in there. And don't worry, it's not another "Loose Change." It has actual facts.
And as for the public's view of the war itself, U.S. troops are actually doing more good than harm. Hell, I have a cousin who recently finished his 8 year contract with the Corps and fought during the 2nd Battle of Fallujah (he's my personal hero and literally the greatest and bravest person I know) and he sometimes likes to talk about his experiences as a Corporal of the USMC serving in Iraq. He tells of how the Iraqis view the Americans as a really great thing after all the **** they had to take from Saddam. And as a matter of fact, despite what many people believe, many of the insurgents aren't even Iraqis. They're mostly foreign fighters from all corners of the Islam world who've come to Iraq to 1) kill Americans and to 2) die. Of course, the American public has a skewed view of everything because the media only likes to report the negative sides of things. You know, isolated cases of atrocities in the hands of Americans and the such.
What I'm trying to say is that the next great war is starting (yes, it really is starting) and we really shouldn't be dividing ourselves as a nation with the whole blue/red political parties. The entire world (not just America) is starting to go down the toilet and I for one would rather prepare myself than get into an argument over a president that I won't even be old enough to vote for.
Too long; didn't read:
We really need to stop being so hard-headed in our political views and unify as a country.
And as for the election, I don't support any of the candidates because I simply don't agree with the way that they're trying to steer the U.S. And yes, that includes Obama. He talks about change (which is great), but just hasn't convinced me. He hasn't come up with any rock-solid 4-year-plans that show exactly what he plans on doing and in what order. Sure he's a great speaker (there's no denying that), but as a leader . . . I really don't see it. If he gets into office, I really do believe that it was because of his charisma, not his experience/views/goals.
As for who'd I'd vote for (if I could vote) . . . I really don't know since I haven't been following up on the election. However, I'd vote for whoever believes in gun rights and opposes gun control. I've always viewed the 2nd Amendment (a constitutional right that the great state of California won't let me have) as the "fail-safe" Amendment because even if every other constitutional right is taken away, the power will still be in the people as long as they're armed and willing to fight; so I believe that the 2nd Amendment is the most important of them all. I mean, look at the Revolutionary War (it was armed militiamen engaging in guerrilla warfare that really helped America win it's independence more than any other military factor) and the American Civil War (I'm not saying that the South should have seceded, I'm only pointing out what the people are capable of if they decide to take action).
Even if we pull out of Iraq, the troops won't be coming home like some politicians claim. They will either be sent to A-stan, Iran, or Pakistan. Why? Because the world is in the beginning stages of WWIII. Now, I realize that I sound like a conspiracy nut (as a matter of fact, I hate conspiracies and find them to be a big waste of time), but the fact of the matter is that we (and I mean the American people) have really screwed ourselves up? Why? Two words, buddy. Two word.
FOSSIL FUEL.
America consumes a vast majority of the world's fossil fuels, while supplying less than 10% (not even really sure if that number's right, as I seem to have trouble finding my sources). Scientists predict that another viable source of energy will be discovered/perfected in the next 50 years or so . . . but global oil production is expected to peak in the next few years (as in we as a planet will start to see a massive decline in oil and a massive increase in oil prices).
Do I believe that Bush and the neo-Conservatives (note how I point out the neo-cons, not the entire Republican party) are to blame for the war in the Middle East? Yes and no. While they played a major part, I still feel that the real blame lies with the American public. They talk about how bad the war is, but they still drive around in their Hummers and watch the Super Bowl on their 60", power sucking LCD screen (BTW, despite "common knowledge," energy is the biggest user of fossil fuel in the United States, not automobiles). Cheney himself said in a speech to the House that "we are entering a war that will not end in our lifetimes" (or something like that). Basically, what he's saying is that WWIII has started, it'll be a fight over natural resources, and it's not going to end for quite a while. Watch "End of Suburbia." It's all in there. And don't worry, it's not another "Loose Change." It has actual facts.
And as for the public's view of the war itself, U.S. troops are actually doing more good than harm. Hell, I have a cousin who recently finished his 8 year contract with the Corps and fought during the 2nd Battle of Fallujah (he's my personal hero and literally the greatest and bravest person I know) and he sometimes likes to talk about his experiences as a Corporal of the USMC serving in Iraq. He tells of how the Iraqis view the Americans as a really great thing after all the **** they had to take from Saddam. And as a matter of fact, despite what many people believe, many of the insurgents aren't even Iraqis. They're mostly foreign fighters from all corners of the Islam world who've come to Iraq to 1) kill Americans and to 2) die. Of course, the American public has a skewed view of everything because the media only likes to report the negative sides of things. You know, isolated cases of atrocities in the hands of Americans and the such.
What I'm trying to say is that the next great war is starting (yes, it really is starting) and we really shouldn't be dividing ourselves as a nation with the whole blue/red political parties. The entire world (not just America) is starting to go down the toilet and I for one would rather prepare myself than get into an argument over a president that I won't even be old enough to vote for.
Too long; didn't read:
We really need to stop being so hard-headed in our political views and unify as a country.
And as for the election, I don't support any of the candidates because I simply don't agree with the way that they're trying to steer the U.S. And yes, that includes Obama. He talks about change (which is great), but just hasn't convinced me. He hasn't come up with any rock-solid 4-year-plans that show exactly what he plans on doing and in what order. Sure he's a great speaker (there's no denying that), but as a leader . . . I really don't see it. If he gets into office, I really do believe that it was because of his charisma, not his experience/views/goals.
As for who'd I'd vote for (if I could vote) . . . I really don't know since I haven't been following up on the election. However, I'd vote for whoever believes in gun rights and opposes gun control. I've always viewed the 2nd Amendment (a constitutional right that the great state of California won't let me have) as the "fail-safe" Amendment because even if every other constitutional right is taken away, the power will still be in the people as long as they're armed and willing to fight; so I believe that the 2nd Amendment is the most important of them all. I mean, look at the Revolutionary War (it was armed militiamen engaging in guerrilla warfare that really helped America win it's independence more than any other military factor) and the American Civil War (I'm not saying that the South should have seceded, I'm only pointing out what the people are capable of if they decide to take action).
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I gotta be honest, I don't like this topic. Politics always wind up leaving a bad taste in my mouth, and regardless of what people say, oftentimes people come away with an unneccesarily bad opinion of others just because they differ on a subject with no diffinitive answer. Personally I'm a republican, but I have a lot of democrat friends who I get along with great... until politics come around and everyone is so sure they are right and no one gets anywhere. I could support my candidate all I want, and bash on others, but ultimately I feel like after a few more or less pointless exchanges we would come away the same opinions as we had gone it with. I have never changed nor had anyone else change my opinion by discussing politics with them.
Personally I feel the debates on TV outa be enough, other then that I wish people would just vote for who they like and move on.
Personally I feel the debates on TV outa be enough, other then that I wish people would just vote for who they like and move on.
SpartanForever
Member
Nappy Hared Azn said:
Yes of course we cant bring all of the troops home... and obama has never said that.... he said we will gradually bring troops out of iraq in a period of a year and put some troops to a-stan since we started that war and havent finished it. If we finish the war in a-stan our economy will sky-rocket. A-stan is a much bigger problem then iraq, first it is a huge war zone.... the american troops are burning the a-stan's people's opium fields which are there number 1 source of income. SOOO the terrorists/rebel's are telling the civilians if you fight for us, we will let you grow your fields.... causing a mass income of enemy soldiers and rebels. After a-stan obama wants the war's to end. But if they dont, he wil do what it takes to make peace or get our country out of the war.
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