"Help!" for: Fiberglassing, Resin, & Bondo
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JayOneSeven
Jr Member
I second this, Rondo can really turn out to be brittle. It breaks easily if dropped or just too much pressure is put into one spot.
Cloth helps to spread pressure out and support the piece much better.
Hi bok178,
For my armor parts, I run through the following tasks:
1) paint resin on the entire outside of the part. Let cure.
2) paint fiberglass on the entire inside of the part, except for possibly small detail areas where the fiberglass won't sit right. Let cure.
3) pour a splash of rondo on those small detail areas from (2). The rondo will reach those smaller crevasses. Let cure.
4) bondo and sanding iterations on outside to achieve desired strength.
(2) can be done in place of (3) if you use small enough fiberglass pieces.
(4) is optional, depending on your final detail preferences. Even low def pepping and no bondo still looks pretty dam good with a descent paint job.
I definitely would not just resin any part. I think of resin as just enough additional reinforcement to safely apply fiber and bondo.
For my armor parts, I run through the following tasks:
1) paint resin on the entire outside of the part. Let cure.
2) paint fiberglass on the entire inside of the part, except for possibly small detail areas where the fiberglass won't sit right. Let cure.
3) pour a splash of rondo on those small detail areas from (2). The rondo will reach those smaller crevasses. Let cure.
4) bondo and sanding iterations on outside to achieve desired strength.
(2) can be done in place of (3) if you use small enough fiberglass pieces.
(4) is optional, depending on your final detail preferences. Even low def pepping and no bondo still looks pretty dam good with a descent paint job.
I definitely would not just resin any part. I think of resin as just enough additional reinforcement to safely apply fiber and bondo.
Looks like I really need some help with smoothing.. I cant post threads in this forum anymore but I guess this can come under 'bondo help'
I can do everything without any problem up to this point but the hardest part of the entire process for me is the smoothing. I mean I know it can take alot of work but I dont seem to be making any progress with it at all. Obviously I didnt expect it to work straight away but I figured the holes could be filled in with spot putty and that would be the end of it. Clearly not. Have tried different methods rather than just bondo, this particular build is too small for me so I decided not to bother even bondoing it and just covered it in spot putty from the start. Sand it all down and of course theres craters all over it. This is my entire issue with the sanding process, doesnt matter how many layers I put everytime I cover over them and sand it over to get the smooth finish it ends up exactly the same again. I can not get rid of all these deep holes whatever I do. Spent a long time already trying to fix this and Im no further than when I started. Im at the point of giving up on this one and just continuing ahead now to paint it. Doesnt matter as much when I cant wear it anyway but I want to use it for practice too so the next one I do I can get turned out better. I have a few others covered in bondo instead and exactly the same issues but the craters are even worse on those. I've sanded with the sponge pad things and with my mouse sander, always turns out the same. Im not really getting how people here get theirs so perfectly smooth, mine is miles away from that. Most of the super smooth pics I see are probably casts but a good cast requires a good original so in either case it still needs to be really good. Am I missing something here or does it need another 50 layers or something? I just cant get these filled in. Some wont even fill at all let alone after sanding. This is my only problem with the entire build process now but its an important stage for the end result to look half decent and its really holding me back
Heres some pics of it from today. Basically like this all over
Any help with how I can fix this mess would be appreciated. Dont know how many layers are/were on there I lost count. I know it shouldnt be just glazing putty all over I only did it with this one as its only going to be a display piece so I didnt put as much work into it. In either case I get the same problem anyway and cant seem to get it filled in without them reappearing again. I didnt expect to have problems with this stage as cracks should easily be filled with putty and I thought that would be that. Not happening for me. Is there something else to use or does it just take a huge amount of work?
I can do everything without any problem up to this point but the hardest part of the entire process for me is the smoothing. I mean I know it can take alot of work but I dont seem to be making any progress with it at all. Obviously I didnt expect it to work straight away but I figured the holes could be filled in with spot putty and that would be the end of it. Clearly not. Have tried different methods rather than just bondo, this particular build is too small for me so I decided not to bother even bondoing it and just covered it in spot putty from the start. Sand it all down and of course theres craters all over it. This is my entire issue with the sanding process, doesnt matter how many layers I put everytime I cover over them and sand it over to get the smooth finish it ends up exactly the same again. I can not get rid of all these deep holes whatever I do. Spent a long time already trying to fix this and Im no further than when I started. Im at the point of giving up on this one and just continuing ahead now to paint it. Doesnt matter as much when I cant wear it anyway but I want to use it for practice too so the next one I do I can get turned out better. I have a few others covered in bondo instead and exactly the same issues but the craters are even worse on those. I've sanded with the sponge pad things and with my mouse sander, always turns out the same. Im not really getting how people here get theirs so perfectly smooth, mine is miles away from that. Most of the super smooth pics I see are probably casts but a good cast requires a good original so in either case it still needs to be really good. Am I missing something here or does it need another 50 layers or something? I just cant get these filled in. Some wont even fill at all let alone after sanding. This is my only problem with the entire build process now but its an important stage for the end result to look half decent and its really holding me back
Heres some pics of it from today. Basically like this all over
Any help with how I can fix this mess would be appreciated. Dont know how many layers are/were on there I lost count. I know it shouldnt be just glazing putty all over I only did it with this one as its only going to be a display piece so I didnt put as much work into it. In either case I get the same problem anyway and cant seem to get it filled in without them reappearing again. I didnt expect to have problems with this stage as cracks should easily be filled with putty and I thought that would be that. Not happening for me. Is there something else to use or does it just take a huge amount of work?
glasscutter
Jr Member
Coyote are you mixing the Bondo by stirring it? Because that will trap air bubbles in it and cause constant pitting like that. It should be folded in. See bondo.com/tips.
Yeah I put the hardener in and stir it all through with a stick to make sure its all mixed properly. I hadnt heard of doing that before I can try that next time
In this case though its just spot putty on it so it doesnt require any mixing I just put it straight on and it goes like this constantly. The white stuff there is just a different kind of knifing putty. Thought that might work better with the different consistancy but its kinda worse and harder to sand. I can look into the folding method and try filling over the holes with that and hope when its sanded it stays smooth. Thanks
In this case though its just spot putty on it so it doesnt require any mixing I just put it straight on and it goes like this constantly. The white stuff there is just a different kind of knifing putty. Thought that might work better with the different consistancy but its kinda worse and harder to sand. I can look into the folding method and try filling over the holes with that and hope when its sanded it stays smooth. Thanks
glasscutter
Jr Member
Are you brushing off, wiping down then letting the bondo dry in-between sanding? Dust left on the surface can cause the next coat to not stick in places. Also might want to check out this video from Cereal Kill3r about putting on and shaping bondo. His videos are excellent:
His razor blade tip about shaving the bondo while still curing is a serious time saver. Glazing putty is great for filling small spots and pits in the bondo. Should be sold right next to the bondo and comes in a tube.
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No I was just putting it straight on, leaving it to dry completely, then keeping putting it on til the whole thing was covered then sanded it down and repeat. Clearly wasnt doing this right so I see why I have all these problems now. Though I first started pep like 3 years ago, its taken me this long to get to this stage as I gave up on them for multiple reasons so all never made it beyond the fibreglass stage before. I am still very much a noob with this and still have alot to learn. I also have no skills what so ever in anything but hopefully I can learn to get better. My pep builds themselves have improved alot but things like this I am bad at. Thank you for the vid, I didnt even think of filing it all down to smooth it off. Seems obvious now but all I'd heard before was bondo, sand and repeat. Need to get myself a good file set and try all this out. The razor blade is a good idea too. Probably past it on this build now but I have some other stuff at the bondo stage now I can practice on before I go and make another helmet. I would be very happy if I could get my stuff smooth like his is. Might take me awhile to get there though. Looks like he mixes the hardener through rather than folding it. I was mixing alot more thoroughily though than that. I also realise from his video that I was putting the bondo on way too thickly and giving a huge amount of sanding work. Now I know to file the sharp edges down first and not put it on so thick
We dont get the bondo brand here Im in the UK. Got the best equivalents I could though. Using this in place of bondo
and this glazing putty
Sure they'll be pretty much the same thing though. Too expensive to import the bondo stuff. I have alot to learn with this process now, definately seems to be the hardest part of the model (besides painting too which I am also terrible at lol) That video is great though will be following it and hopefully get good results. Probably need help with small detailing too so I will look through his other videos. Getting into really small areas to smooth and detail looks to be a problem to me too. I can only work on stuff at weekends so its going to take me awhile to make much progress but hopefully get there eventually and make some decent builds
I'll work on all this and any more problems I'll get back here. I have a huge amount to learn to get anything looking half decent. This one is too messy to try fix now so I'll just try these techniques out on other pieces that I can start from here on and hopefully get the technique down before trying on a detailed helmet again. Not the best thing to practice on but I need to make another one anyway
We dont get the bondo brand here Im in the UK. Got the best equivalents I could though. Using this in place of bondo
and this glazing putty
Sure they'll be pretty much the same thing though. Too expensive to import the bondo stuff. I have alot to learn with this process now, definately seems to be the hardest part of the model (besides painting too which I am also terrible at lol) That video is great though will be following it and hopefully get good results. Probably need help with small detailing too so I will look through his other videos. Getting into really small areas to smooth and detail looks to be a problem to me too. I can only work on stuff at weekends so its going to take me awhile to make much progress but hopefully get there eventually and make some decent builds
I'll work on all this and any more problems I'll get back here. I have a huge amount to learn to get anything looking half decent. This one is too messy to try fix now so I'll just try these techniques out on other pieces that I can start from here on and hopefully get the technique down before trying on a detailed helmet again. Not the best thing to practice on but I need to make another one anyway
EVAkura
Well-Known Member
Right off, I see two issues. The first is that it does not appear that you are building up your filler enough (at least in the third picture down and between the blue lines. Second is that spot putty (and apparently the body filler you are using) is easily sanded. Much more so than the epoxy you used on the helmet. What happens is the filler gets sanded down with the pressure you apply, and the epoxy does not. This will cause serious dips where the filler was. The best solution to that is to build up the filler higher than you need, then lightly sand. Once you hit an area that does not have filler, sand even lighter if you need to continue. The true pros that get that mirror finish, have learned the delicate touch needed when using multiple mediums.
This may not be your solution, but I hope it helps just the same.
This may not be your solution, but I hope it helps just the same.
I was just trying to smooth/level it all off but sometimes I did put more on and it would still instantly turn into a hole again when sanded even lightly. I wouldnt call the filler easy to sand despite what it says.. by hand it would take me forever to get any of it down. I have to use my mouse sander to make a dent in that. I can try that solution out too and see if I can get something to fix my problems. Rather than trying to fix such a mess it'll be easier to do it right from the start so I want to try the rasp file method to take off the sharp pep edges to get a smooth start then hope the bondo takes better like in the video. If I cant get it as easily as he did I can try building up more like that. I will never be pro level I simply lack skills, I just dont want to be a complete noob anymore
I shouldnt have only used spot putty on this I just thought it would be easier when I wanted to finish it quickly. Need to do more bondo work and practice how to not get this problem anymore. I'll work on some old pieces I never finished and see if I can get it. If not I'll come back here and see what Im doing wrong
Thanks for the help
I shouldnt have only used spot putty on this I just thought it would be easier when I wanted to finish it quickly. Need to do more bondo work and practice how to not get this problem anymore. I'll work on some old pieces I never finished and see if I can get it. If not I'll come back here and see what Im doing wrong
Thanks for the help
ArcTek
New Member
Hey Guys
I'm working on my first helmet build, so far I've got the parts cut out from pepakura "to scale of my head" of a Venator Helmet.
Questions
1: I've been looking around for a non/ low toxic resin(s), I've been advised to use Aqua Resin, But still a little bit unsure.
1b: Fiberglass is not permitted in the household
1c: How thick does the helmet get with the resin and other materials applied?
2: Creating the visor...
- I've heard there's a spray that can make transparent materials one way "not sure what its called"
Any help, links or tips would be greatly appreciated.
I'm working on my first helmet build, so far I've got the parts cut out from pepakura "to scale of my head" of a Venator Helmet.
Questions
1: I've been looking around for a non/ low toxic resin(s), I've been advised to use Aqua Resin, But still a little bit unsure.
1b: Fiberglass is not permitted in the household
1c: How thick does the helmet get with the resin and other materials applied?
2: Creating the visor...
- I've heard there's a spray that can make transparent materials one way "not sure what its called"
Any help, links or tips would be greatly appreciated.
glasscutter
Jr Member
Doing a search here for Aqua-Resin, aquaresin, and jesmonite (british sold variant like Aqua-Resin) will bring up a lot of great older posts about it. I think a lot of those past builders using Aqua-Resin have stopped visiting here, but the information is still pretty good. I am currently also experimenting with it in my Mark V CE build. I am by no means a expert on it or armor making in general though lol. However feel free to check out my build. Hopefully my screwups can help you avoid them. You also might want to check out the posts by RYNO_666. He uses Aqua-Resin and gets some fantastic results. I am still reading through his posts and learning more every time I do.
I have heard 2 main ways of coating the inside of a helmet... either resin with fiberglass matte or Rondo. I have heard fiberglass can be pokey. Would it be unheard of to fiberglass the inside with a few layers and then rondo a layer to cover up the 'pokey' bits? I would think you would get the strength of the fiberglass and the comfort of the rondo with less weight.
Satchmo III
Well-Known Member
There would be nothing wrong with doing this.
Try to place the fiberglass mat flat with the inner surface of the helmet. The pokey bits are caused when flaps or pieces of the mat lift up from the surface and then cure. These hardened ridges can be minimized if the mat is placed well and with care. Then you might find it easier to just grind the few ridges you're left with rather than coating the entire inside with rondo.
I like to apply a coat of rondo prior to placing fiberglass. The rondo layer fills the straight edges where the paper joins to make a smoother surface to place the fiberglass. Later, the rondo layer provides a bit of a buffer to the fiberglass should you sand or etch in detailing too far from the outside.
Ah okay so reverse. That makes a lot of sense. I think I might try that or even Rondo-Fiberglass-Rondo. It would make the inside look nice and finished most likely. I just thought it strange everyone spoke of the pros and cons but I really haven't seen anything about combining the two. I don't mind weight really, I do medieval stuff and wear chaimmail and armor all the time so 20 lbs of armor is nothing compared to a 50lb chain shirt
Thanks Satchmo!Hey Guys
I'm working on my first helmet build, so far I've got the parts cut out from pepakura "to scale of my head" of a Venator Helmet....
2: Creating the visor...
- I've heard there's a spray that can make transparent materials one way "not sure what its called"
Any help, links or tips would be greatly appreciated.
ArcTek, please post questions in the proper thread. This is a thread about fiberglass, Resin, and Bondo... not visors and tinting. Google is your best friend. Research instead of expecting members to hand the answers to you for something as simple as 'tint. There is a whole thread dedicated to that. I am a newer member and have been reading and researching for months. It irritates me when others don't take the time to do the same and expect the easy way.
http://www.405th.com/search.php?searchid=2673345
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=gold+mirror+window+tint&_frs=1
Carpathia
Sr Member
Ah okay so reverse. That makes a lot of sense. I think I might try that or even Rondo-Fiberglass-Rondo. It would make the inside look nice and finished most likely. I just thought it strange everyone spoke of the pros and cons but I really haven't seen anything about combining the two. I don't mind weight really, I do medieval stuff and wear chaimmail and armor all the time so 20 lbs of armor is nothing compared to a 50lb chain shirt
That's going to make for one heavy helmet. The rondo>fiberglass will be heavy enough. I've made and worn maille as well, and wearing a shirt of metal that's hanging from your shoulders is one thing. But when the weights is all on your head/neck, you're going to feel it pretty quickly.
Yes a maille shirt is one thing but I also wear a helmet ;P and everything else for that matter (full plate armor kit). http://www.thevikingstore.co.uk/ekmps/shops/thevikingstore1/images/larp-visored-barbuta-helmet-[2]-11031-p.jpg After wearing all that, nothing you do with papercraft is going to rival that weight unless you make metal halo armor
Carpathia
Sr Member
I've also build a few medieval helmets (I was on a medieval reenactment kick a decade ago). One was a crusader-style full helm, made from 16 gauge steel, and it's only a bit heavier than my Mk VI helmet which was constructed with the rondo>fiberglass method. It's your choice though, I'm just stating what I've experienced while participating in this hobby.
glasscutter
Jr Member
You don't need rondo to smooth the inside. After the fiberglass is cured, lightly run a junk towel or glove over the inside. Sand down any snags with 80 grit sandpaper. Then apply a resin only coat to smooth it out.
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