DarKMaGick
New Member
Are you supposed to resin the paper visor before you cut it out?
"Help!" for: Fiberglassing, Resin, & Bondo
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coldevil123
Jr Member
It is good to keep the visor in until you have the definite shape of your helmet. I keep it in until it is fiberglassed. Keeping the visor in helps prevent warping, and warping is bad.
Additionally, no pep is 100% perfect, so keeping the visor from that job (and making sure it's properly fiberglassed before cutting it out) will ensure the visor will fit the helmet as best as possible.
If you try and do a seperate visor, it may not end up with the exact same nuances as the helmet had.
If you try and do a seperate visor, it may not end up with the exact same nuances as the helmet had.
question:
whats the importance of bondo? im considering just making a pep armor with resin, and some substitute for fiberglass, paint it pad it, and done. Is it bad that im skiping the bondo step? and if so, do you really need powertools when smoothing out the bondo? or can you just use sand paper or similar materials? (note: knows practically nothing about bondo, other than its abit like plumbers epoxy)
whats the importance of bondo? im considering just making a pep armor with resin, and some substitute for fiberglass, paint it pad it, and done. Is it bad that im skiping the bondo step? and if so, do you really need powertools when smoothing out the bondo? or can you just use sand paper or similar materials? (note: knows practically nothing about bondo, other than its abit like plumbers epoxy)
Satchmo III
Well-Known Member
Bondo is typically applied to the exterior of models and then sanded in order to eliminate the polygonal nature of pepakura models and create smooth surfaces. It can also be used to build up surfaces in order to add extra details and fix minor warping issues with models.
I think the important deciding factor to consider when choosing whether or not to use bondo is really your satisfaction with how the model looks. There are some great models out there that, when the paper is put together well, would look great without bondo (especially when painted). The amount of time you're willing to dedicate to detail work is also a factor.
Power tools are not required but can be beneficial. I use a sanding block with sand paper when smoothing surfaces but use a dremel rotary tool to etch in detail. Some people are able to achieve good detail work with the use of files, and some achieve better detail with files than with a rotary tool so this is really a subjective thing. My suggestion would be to try different techniques to figure out what works best for you.
Good luck with your project.
I'd like to add, be wary of orbtial sanders, they will eat through the piece like it's cheese if you're not careful.
Some people have tried bondo alternatives, but it boils down to one simple rule: Bondo is toxic while wet, but cheap as dirt and easy to sand.
You can also mix it with resin to bypass fiberglass altogether on the inside, though the final piece won't be as strong, it will still be stronger than just resin, or just bondo.
Satchmo is right, you can bypass bondo if you are fine with the armor looking blocky, or if you happen to know of a decent alternative that is strong but smooth.
Some people have tried bondo alternatives, but it boils down to one simple rule: Bondo is toxic while wet, but cheap as dirt and easy to sand.
You can also mix it with resin to bypass fiberglass altogether on the inside, though the final piece won't be as strong, it will still be stronger than just resin, or just bondo.
Satchmo is right, you can bypass bondo if you are fine with the armor looking blocky, or if you happen to know of a decent alternative that is strong but smooth.
ok, lets go trough steps.
IF you used an Polyester based primer or a PU based primer, and then you painting it. yes, you can add bondo later, just make sure to make the surface rough enough to apply the bondo, otherwise it would not stick very well on the surface.
and if you didnt used any primer at all, in that case, you cant add bondo later, you will have to sand it all off before start the bondo work.
well, it all depends on the sandpaper grid you choose,
i like to give the shape with 100grid sandpaper then i move straight to the 150, then 320 and 400 to polish it. the way i do the sander dont eat the piece like its cheese.
thewrongvine
New Member
Hey, so, I resin-ed the outside of my helmet, and then I fiberglass clothed the inside, so now I'm having trouble filing the insides, since there are so many like crevices and folds, the spikes from the dried fiberglass cloth go everywhere, and it's hard to reach in there and sand or cut them off. It's probably worth noting also that I don't have an orbital sander so I'm doing this by hand.
Well, this isn't really a question I guess, but are there any suggestions or tips on how to work this out? I've been sanding and cutting the bumps/spikes/excess cloth for quite awhile now, but it's going very slow and barely smoothing it out since it's hard for me to fit in there with my hand, plus the fact that the fiberglass is strong so I don't get much off.
I don't know... I want to wear it but right now it's a death trap with spikes if I put it on, ha.
Also, what would you use to cut fiberglass? Like to separate two pieces of my helmet since I fiberglassed them as one piece so it wouldn't warp, but now I want them apart again.
Thanks.
EDIT: I'm thinking I'll just go buy a dremel... BUT WITHOUT DREMEL IS THERE ANY WAY?
Well, this isn't really a question I guess, but are there any suggestions or tips on how to work this out? I've been sanding and cutting the bumps/spikes/excess cloth for quite awhile now, but it's going very slow and barely smoothing it out since it's hard for me to fit in there with my hand, plus the fact that the fiberglass is strong so I don't get much off.
I don't know... I want to wear it but right now it's a death trap with spikes if I put it on, ha.
Also, what would you use to cut fiberglass? Like to separate two pieces of my helmet since I fiberglassed them as one piece so it wouldn't warp, but now I want them apart again.
Thanks.
EDIT: I'm thinking I'll just go buy a dremel... BUT WITHOUT DREMEL IS THERE ANY WAY?
Multiple coats of resin to strengthen the paper stage to better support it when you apply the first layers of fiberglass/rondo, multiple coats of rondo/fiberglass to strengthen it for wearing. Rondo is not strong enough alone for reliable wearing, as it's still fairly brittle against impacts (dropping, running into corners), alternating layers of rondo and fiberglass ensure a very strong matrix.
Admiral Tiberius
Jr Member
yeah I would like to know what most people do to fix this, my chest plate is full of fiberglass that isnt fully matted down (last time I use the mat instead of the weaved cloth fiberglass). should I just use more resin and get it really solid?
HEY GUYS! I LOVE GLASS!
So here's what's going down... The best method for hardening the helmet, or at least a method I ascribe to is as follows:
-First, a layer of resin inside and outside. Do a second layer if you find it's still not too strong or wanna be extra sure.
-Then, do a layer of Rondo sloshed on the inside of the piece. This has two major benefits, the first being that it fills in the detail areas and smooths the inside of the helmet for fiberglass later on, the second is it gives you a layer to work with if you sand through the paper.
-After this, do a layer of fiberglass (or two), and then another layer of rondo, another of fiberglass, and another layer of rondo, alternating until it has the strength you want it to have. A lot of people do ONLY rondo, but I think this is a very dangerous way to go, as rondo is brittle and will shatter if you drop it too hard (I don't care how many people have dropped it and not had it crack, I've cracked my needler and ODST helmet from 3-4 foot drops, and Cereal Killer and Sean Bradley both ascribe to fiberglass mix, especially if you intend to wear it, if you wanna cast it and are fine with the risk, you don't need fiberglass) The rondo smooths the inside so you can lay fiberglass much more cleanly without the jagged lines, and also allows you to use fiberglass cloth, instead of mat, as cloth is MUCH cleaner to work with. The last layer of rondo on the inside will cover all of the fiberglass so you don't even need to worry about it.
For your situation though, if the spikes aren't too high, you can still go over them with rondo to just simply bury them alive. If they are high, I'd wait until after I cut the helmet, as it will give you easier access to the inside. Also, waiting will make it easier to cut the helmet.
Cutting is absolutely a thousand times easier with a rotary tool instead of any hand tool you may try, and won't risk destroying it like using a table saw. The dremel will help you with bondo stage also, and is an invaluable tool for this hobby. It's a great investment that I highly recommend regardless, just be sure to pick the right one for your needs. The regular dremels are versatile and have many uses. The multimax is good for making clean cuts but I am not sure it can do much else. If this is your first rotary, you might want to go with the regular ones, as they will be good at cutting grinding and engraving.
So here's what's going down... The best method for hardening the helmet, or at least a method I ascribe to is as follows:
-First, a layer of resin inside and outside. Do a second layer if you find it's still not too strong or wanna be extra sure.
-Then, do a layer of Rondo sloshed on the inside of the piece. This has two major benefits, the first being that it fills in the detail areas and smooths the inside of the helmet for fiberglass later on, the second is it gives you a layer to work with if you sand through the paper.
-After this, do a layer of fiberglass (or two), and then another layer of rondo, another of fiberglass, and another layer of rondo, alternating until it has the strength you want it to have. A lot of people do ONLY rondo, but I think this is a very dangerous way to go, as rondo is brittle and will shatter if you drop it too hard (I don't care how many people have dropped it and not had it crack, I've cracked my needler and ODST helmet from 3-4 foot drops, and Cereal Killer and Sean Bradley both ascribe to fiberglass mix, especially if you intend to wear it, if you wanna cast it and are fine with the risk, you don't need fiberglass) The rondo smooths the inside so you can lay fiberglass much more cleanly without the jagged lines, and also allows you to use fiberglass cloth, instead of mat, as cloth is MUCH cleaner to work with. The last layer of rondo on the inside will cover all of the fiberglass so you don't even need to worry about it.
For your situation though, if the spikes aren't too high, you can still go over them with rondo to just simply bury them alive. If they are high, I'd wait until after I cut the helmet, as it will give you easier access to the inside. Also, waiting will make it easier to cut the helmet.
Cutting is absolutely a thousand times easier with a rotary tool instead of any hand tool you may try, and won't risk destroying it like using a table saw. The dremel will help you with bondo stage also, and is an invaluable tool for this hobby. It's a great investment that I highly recommend regardless, just be sure to pick the right one for your needs. The regular dremels are versatile and have many uses. The multimax is good for making clean cuts but I am not sure it can do much else. If this is your first rotary, you might want to go with the regular ones, as they will be good at cutting grinding and engraving.
thewrongvine
New Member
Ha, I managed to get a dremel from a friend, but a bit too late, as I already cut my faceplate of my helmet off the headpiece, and it's really jagged. Anyway, I didn't have a sawblade attachment, only the sanding ones, so I've been using the dremel to smooth out the inside fiberglass to make it safe, but it's taking a long time.
I want to finish this helmet soon so I'm thinking, is this a good alternative for the inside: padding the insides with like a layer of foam or something else that's light but strong, over the fiberglass spikes, so I can still put the helmet on. I mean, I've cleared like 75% of the excess fiberglass, but there are just some like cuts here and there that I may not get in time, and I just want to be safe.
Also, do you only bondo the outside? Or can you bondo the inside as well (and perhaps cover any extra spikes)?
Thanks again.
I want to finish this helmet soon so I'm thinking, is this a good alternative for the inside: padding the insides with like a layer of foam or something else that's light but strong, over the fiberglass spikes, so I can still put the helmet on. I mean, I've cleared like 75% of the excess fiberglass, but there are just some like cuts here and there that I may not get in time, and I just want to be safe.
Also, do you only bondo the outside? Or can you bondo the inside as well (and perhaps cover any extra spikes)?
Thanks again.
Admiral Tiberius
Jr Member
Bondo is only meant to be used on the outside of the helmet. It is a filler used to smooth the surface of (in this case) the armor or helmet so that it becomes extremely smooth and even. It works out all the small imperfections in the resin or the paper. Also if you do use the bondo (and you should), I've noticed that some people put gobs of the stuff on their builds. That isn't how it should be used, you only need a fairly thin layer covering your armor. the more you put on, the more you have to sand, and the harder it is to keep the details of the pep'ed work. I use pieces of plastic cut from bottles and things to evenly apply the bondo and keep it as even and thin as possible. Katsu will probably answer you better than I can anyway, but hope this helps.
You don't only use bondo on the outside. You can mix it with resin to fill in and smooth the inside (which is good for better fiberglass laydown, and adding a buffer zone for sanding, and protecting you from fiberglass shards)
But its primary use is on the outside. Admiral is right, less is more, you want the piece to be as smooth as possible before-hand (Cereal's thread in the creation discussion shows the pre-bondo sanding process) then you take a flexible but stiff thing (bondo sells a squeegee, but an old credit card works too) to smooth it over the piece. It's important the squeegee be flexible so that it can go over curves and bends more accurately that a wooden popsicle stick would.
When you cut, you want to use the wheel that looks like hard sandpaper. When you grind to remove big chunks of stuff you use the barrel of sandpaper on the dremel.
Lastly, to cover spikes inside the helmet, it's prudent to mix bondo and fiberglass resin and slosh it around the inside of the helmet. This covers the spikes, reinforces the fiberglass, and makes a much nicer interior for your face (though still toxic, just less likely to stab you).
But its primary use is on the outside. Admiral is right, less is more, you want the piece to be as smooth as possible before-hand (Cereal's thread in the creation discussion shows the pre-bondo sanding process) then you take a flexible but stiff thing (bondo sells a squeegee, but an old credit card works too) to smooth it over the piece. It's important the squeegee be flexible so that it can go over curves and bends more accurately that a wooden popsicle stick would.
When you cut, you want to use the wheel that looks like hard sandpaper. When you grind to remove big chunks of stuff you use the barrel of sandpaper on the dremel.
Lastly, to cover spikes inside the helmet, it's prudent to mix bondo and fiberglass resin and slosh it around the inside of the helmet. This covers the spikes, reinforces the fiberglass, and makes a much nicer interior for your face (though still toxic, just less likely to stab you).
thewrongvine
New Member
Ha, guess it's a good thing I had to use every last bit of bondo in the can to finish as I didn't have that much, so I used it sparingly and evenly throughout, and didn't like glob over it.
Though I suppose that also means I won't be able to do the bondo + resin mix for the interior yet.
About the toxicity, after it dries inside, is it still dangerous?
Thanks for the responses.
Though I suppose that also means I won't be able to do the bondo + resin mix for the interior yet.
About the toxicity, after it dries inside, is it still dangerous?
Thanks for the responses.
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