Admiral Tiberius
Jr Member
Yeah you are good once it sets up completely.
"Help!" for: Fiberglassing, Resin, & Bondo
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It will always be a bit gross even after it sets. My ODST helmet sat out airing out for a good month and still reeked of bondo. If you intend to wear it, you should get a good, heavy thick safe spray paint and hose the inside thoroughly with it. That will forever lock away the bondo, and if it's a safe paint, you won't just be replacing one noxious fume with another, though most quality spray paints will eventually cure odorless. Another option is to buy some food safe plastic and slush cast it inside, or something... I mold cast my helmets, so I don't really think about wearing fiberglass.
thewrongvine
New Member
I wish I had more time to work on this.
Just out of curiosity, how long does it usually take to do a decent sanding of the body filler on a helmet for the outside? And a dremel (with hand sanding for extra) is sufficient enough for a decent sanding job? Like, you wouldn't need one of those mouse sanders or anything. I've been using the dremel with the barrel attachment like you said, and it's good, but it's very small and hard to get the whole area to be on same level and smoothness, but that's probably just me.
I've been putting as much time as I can into this (which isn't much with work and all), but my helmet is still a long way from before being smooth, as if it's one piece of metal rather than... bondo bumps.
Just out of curiosity, how long does it usually take to do a decent sanding of the body filler on a helmet for the outside? And a dremel (with hand sanding for extra) is sufficient enough for a decent sanding job? Like, you wouldn't need one of those mouse sanders or anything. I've been using the dremel with the barrel attachment like you said, and it's good, but it's very small and hard to get the whole area to be on same level and smoothness, but that's probably just me.
I've been putting as much time as I can into this (which isn't much with work and all), but my helmet is still a long way from before being smooth, as if it's one piece of metal rather than... bondo bumps.
Admiral Tiberius
Jr Member
I know katsu has better expertise than I but what the heck, I might as well add what i've learned. I only can use the dremel to sand down big gobs of splattered or gunked up bondo and detail work. I don't know how it would be possible to get it acutally smooth with a dremel tool, it just takes TOO much off at a time. Actually I would highly recommend getting a sanding block to help with the more even sections. not only does it make it easier to sand with, it gets the final shape more even and makes low spots easier to see since you arent just using your hand, which doesn't keep an even shape and thus will also sand low spots as well as high ones. I didn't want to spend $7 on a piece of rubber that they sell at walmart for a sanding block so i just use a chunk of wood with sandpaper stapled to it, seems to do the job.
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thewrongvine
New Member
Ah, yeah, I have that (both a sanding block and a custom wood block one I made), but I don't know if maybe I'm just inferior and weak or something ha, but sanding even with the sanding paper doesn't seem to be doing much. Like only little specks of dust are sanded off each time. I guess I'll just push harder or something.
EDIT: Looking at other videos and tutorials and stuff, I probably just mixed the bondo + hardener wrong or something. I don't know, it's just really unsmooth and bumpy, even when I was applying it it was kind of firm and stuff. And then when people are sanding the bondo, it seems to come off fairly easily, while mine is somewhat difficult, I think. I could just be wrong and nervous that I'm working slowly, but I will post a picture tomorrow I guess.
EDIT: Looking at other videos and tutorials and stuff, I probably just mixed the bondo + hardener wrong or something. I don't know, it's just really unsmooth and bumpy, even when I was applying it it was kind of firm and stuff. And then when people are sanding the bondo, it seems to come off fairly easily, while mine is somewhat difficult, I think. I could just be wrong and nervous that I'm working slowly, but I will post a picture tomorrow I guess.
Admiral Tiberius
Jr Member
Yeah that sounds odd. It may not have enough hardener mixed in and that could cause it to not sand properly. If its not rock hard after a few hours this is what I suspect is your problem. Also, look at your sand paper (should be a pretty low grit count to start with), is it getting gummed up with bondo? This is also an indicator of not enough hardener or enough time. You really don't need to be applying much pressure to be able to sand it... Something else is wrong besides your strength. When you apply it it should have been pretty soft and goopy, not firm. If it was firm before you applied it it's possible that you had too much hardener or didn't apply it fast enough. I did this my first time I tried to use it, I thought I could just mold it into place like putty... Retarded... But now I know!
I hope you get it figured out. You should be getting copious amounts of dust even without a lot of pressure.
I hope you get it figured out. You should be getting copious amounts of dust even without a lot of pressure.
The mixture shouldn't affect the consistency much, just the color and how long it takes to harden.
Sanding is best done with an orbital sander at around 120 grit. If you do it by hand you need 60 or 80 grit to grind it down easily, and then +100 +200 for smoothing it out. The dremel is only for grinding off the really high parts, or carving in modifications or whatever else you need to cut long narrow strips for. Dremels are not for smoothing out, they're part of the roughing out the shape stage. Smoothing is done by orbital sanders, sanding mouse, or elbow grease.
If you are finding it's a bit too hard to sand through, you can try Bondo's "Gold Standard" filler. It's yellow instead of grey which makes mixing it a bit harder, but that stuff sands like butter. It's not as strong but if you are having trouble sanding it might be a good alternative.
But the basic premise of sanding is: Bondo -> Grind down the too high areas -> Smooth sand everything to be even.
Sanding is best done with an orbital sander at around 120 grit. If you do it by hand you need 60 or 80 grit to grind it down easily, and then +100 +200 for smoothing it out. The dremel is only for grinding off the really high parts, or carving in modifications or whatever else you need to cut long narrow strips for. Dremels are not for smoothing out, they're part of the roughing out the shape stage. Smoothing is done by orbital sanders, sanding mouse, or elbow grease.
If you are finding it's a bit too hard to sand through, you can try Bondo's "Gold Standard" filler. It's yellow instead of grey which makes mixing it a bit harder, but that stuff sands like butter. It's not as strong but if you are having trouble sanding it might be a good alternative.
But the basic premise of sanding is: Bondo -> Grind down the too high areas -> Smooth sand everything to be even.
well after looking through this sticky and whatnot, i STILL have a couple Quuuestions
and that is,
so the order is,
resin outside
resin inside
fiberglass inside (with fiberglass mat pieces)
then bondo if wanted? correct?
and
what parts would i need a respirator for? or can i just do the whole thing outside?
and that is,
so the order is,
resin outside
resin inside
fiberglass inside (with fiberglass mat pieces)
then bondo if wanted? correct?
and
what parts would i need a respirator for? or can i just do the whole thing outside?
The fastest, sloppiest way is:
resin out
glass in
The easier (I think) but more steps way is:
resin out
resin in
rondo in
glass in x2
rondo in
This gives you a really really strong helmet without the heartbreak of trying to fiberglass detailed areas.
You only need to bondo if you wan to smooth the outside of the piece... if you are fine with it being boxy then you can leave it as is I guess.
You need a respirator inside OR outside, regardless. And you need it for all steps using fiberglass, resin, or bondo. All three are carcinogenic or painful for your lungs. It's a pretty hard line taken on this subject. You may go without the respirator and smell the fumes and feel fine, but that's how carcinogens work, they creep up on you years later, and the respirator will just save you that and make it a lot more pleasant, cuz that stuff reeks bad.
resin out
glass in
The easier (I think) but more steps way is:
resin out
resin in
rondo in
glass in x2
rondo in
This gives you a really really strong helmet without the heartbreak of trying to fiberglass detailed areas.
You only need to bondo if you wan to smooth the outside of the piece... if you are fine with it being boxy then you can leave it as is I guess.
You need a respirator inside OR outside, regardless. And you need it for all steps using fiberglass, resin, or bondo. All three are carcinogenic or painful for your lungs. It's a pretty hard line taken on this subject. You may go without the respirator and smell the fumes and feel fine, but that's how carcinogens work, they creep up on you years later, and the respirator will just save you that and make it a lot more pleasant, cuz that stuff reeks bad.
MasterCadence
New Member
ok can anyone please tell me in easy steps what i exactly have to do when i have my paper armor piece folded?
There are no easy steps and there are no magic bullets either. Completing a set of armor will take a minimum of 3 months. I suggest that you read this guide thoroughly. The guide will answer all your questions. Skipping any of the steps will only lead to incomplete armor.
http://www.405th.com/showthread.php/34408-All-In-One-New-Member-Introduction-Guide
Fiberglass will not have a smooth surface inside. Since it is inside, you should not be worried of getting it smooth. More likely than not, you are going to put some padding to make the helmet comfortable. The padding will cover the inside surface and hide any imperfection. The smooth surface that you seen on some of the projects are due to Rondo. Rondo is a mix of resin and bondo. I suggest you do a search on how do use rondo before asking how to do it. I recently posted a video when I rondoed my Master Chief Halo 4 helmet. See the link for my YouTube channel.
thewrongvine
New Member
Oh dear, I feel dumb. Rondo... resin and bondo... ha... it clicked.
Okay, here are some pictures of my sloppy craftsmanship. They're kinda big so I just linked them instead of posting them here.
Will need a lot of sanding as you see, especially to get the details and like ups/downs/valleys of the helmet back. And I put too much on I believe. Now that I'm watching more videos (yours included, CoolC), I see that I didn't need to actually apply like a whole layer evenly throughout the whole helmet to cover it. Way too much.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2hxu0iw.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/1qg7pw.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2iu81o7.jpg
It's a shame I ran out of bondo, I shall need to buy some more when I have the time, so I can rondo the inside.
Okay, here are some pictures of my sloppy craftsmanship. They're kinda big so I just linked them instead of posting them here.
Will need a lot of sanding as you see, especially to get the details and like ups/downs/valleys of the helmet back. And I put too much on I believe. Now that I'm watching more videos (yours included, CoolC), I see that I didn't need to actually apply like a whole layer evenly throughout the whole helmet to cover it. Way too much.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2hxu0iw.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/1qg7pw.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2iu81o7.jpg
It's a shame I ran out of bondo, I shall need to buy some more when I have the time, so I can rondo the inside.
Okay, I'm afraid I don't have a lot of time to run through all the questions, so I'll post my own. My father is kind of confused on the health risks of using Resin.
- Such as, is using resin outside okay? Or will it affect all the houses around me?
- What exactly should I buy if I'm going to use fiberglass resin
- How toxic is resin in general. If I breath this in for a second or so, will I be in danger?
- Such as, is using resin outside okay? Or will it affect all the houses around me?
- What exactly should I buy if I'm going to use fiberglass resin
- How toxic is resin in general. If I breath this in for a second or so, will I be in danger?
Using resin outside is okay, so long as it's at least not TOTALLY enclosed (ie don't do it in a quad in the middle of a donut shaped apartment complex), in fact, outside is the only place it should be done unless you have access to a place designed for auto repair, as the fumes will soak into EVERYTHING in a normal house.
If you want to fiberglass, you need to buy the following...
1) a can of fiberglass resin which looks like this usually (in america):
http://bondo.com/media/catalog/prod...27136e95/0/0/00404_Bondo_Fiberglass_Resin.jpg
2) fiberglass cloth, or fiberglass mat. Mat hugs edges and corners easier, but flakes off and can be inhaled to cause damage to the lungs. I swear by fiberglass cloth, and just cut smaller pieces. It's more tightly woven than mat, so it doesn't flake off and fray as much, looks nicer, lays down smoother, and where I live it costs less than the mat.
3) resin catalyst. This will usually be a liquid dropper called MEKP, but I am under the impression from posts here than British countries tend to have a paste or something instead... I donno but try and get MEKP, it's a lot easier to measure out, 10 drops per ounce in normal temperatures.
4) disposable measuring cups, these are usually little wax paper cups, I don't recommend getting more than 3ounce sized cups, as you should never really be working with more than 2ounces at a time of resin. Disposable because once the resin dries in the cup, it's a goner anyways.
5) stirring/applying instrument, usually this is a disposable brush, the store I go to sells them for 5c each, and I buy a good dozen or two. It SHOULD be a brush, because resin is liquid-ish and a brush lays it down much better than a popsicle stick will.
GET A RESPIRATOR! Resin is VERY toxic. You can take in a breath or two and be fine overall, but extended exposure can cause short term highs (the bad kind like when you breath in car exhaust fumes), and can long term cause cancer. It is mostly dangerous when inhaled, but it's not too fun to get stuck to your skin, but you can avoid that by just being careful when brushing it on the armor piece. Wear latex or nitrile gloves and wear a respirator, and you'll be fine.
I have a suggestion that makes the fiberglassing method easier.. mix a batch of rondo (half bondo half resin... or 3/4 bondo 1/4 resin with the catalysts for both added) and slosh it around the inside of the helmet (if it's a helmet). Once it dries, then you can go crazy with the fiberglass. The rondo will smooth the inside of the helmet, hiding a lot of the corners and details that usually make fiberglass a pain to work with. In short, fiberglass goes over broad flat surfaces very happy, and it will bunch up, bubble and fray when layed on hard edges, corners, and little detail areas. By hiding those spots with rondo, the fiberglass lays down very very easily. But rondo is NOT strong enough for prolonged wearing, some people have good luck with it and probably don't ever drop their armor or walk into doors or tables, but you're playing the odds if you don't add in some layers of fiberglass.
Good luck, especially with finding stuff, as I recall you saying you lived in Australia, so the products will be differently named! But any further questions we'll be glad to answer.
If you want to fiberglass, you need to buy the following...
1) a can of fiberglass resin which looks like this usually (in america):
http://bondo.com/media/catalog/prod...27136e95/0/0/00404_Bondo_Fiberglass_Resin.jpg
2) fiberglass cloth, or fiberglass mat. Mat hugs edges and corners easier, but flakes off and can be inhaled to cause damage to the lungs. I swear by fiberglass cloth, and just cut smaller pieces. It's more tightly woven than mat, so it doesn't flake off and fray as much, looks nicer, lays down smoother, and where I live it costs less than the mat.
3) resin catalyst. This will usually be a liquid dropper called MEKP, but I am under the impression from posts here than British countries tend to have a paste or something instead... I donno but try and get MEKP, it's a lot easier to measure out, 10 drops per ounce in normal temperatures.
4) disposable measuring cups, these are usually little wax paper cups, I don't recommend getting more than 3ounce sized cups, as you should never really be working with more than 2ounces at a time of resin. Disposable because once the resin dries in the cup, it's a goner anyways.
5) stirring/applying instrument, usually this is a disposable brush, the store I go to sells them for 5c each, and I buy a good dozen or two. It SHOULD be a brush, because resin is liquid-ish and a brush lays it down much better than a popsicle stick will.
GET A RESPIRATOR! Resin is VERY toxic. You can take in a breath or two and be fine overall, but extended exposure can cause short term highs (the bad kind like when you breath in car exhaust fumes), and can long term cause cancer. It is mostly dangerous when inhaled, but it's not too fun to get stuck to your skin, but you can avoid that by just being careful when brushing it on the armor piece. Wear latex or nitrile gloves and wear a respirator, and you'll be fine.
I have a suggestion that makes the fiberglassing method easier.. mix a batch of rondo (half bondo half resin... or 3/4 bondo 1/4 resin with the catalysts for both added) and slosh it around the inside of the helmet (if it's a helmet). Once it dries, then you can go crazy with the fiberglass. The rondo will smooth the inside of the helmet, hiding a lot of the corners and details that usually make fiberglass a pain to work with. In short, fiberglass goes over broad flat surfaces very happy, and it will bunch up, bubble and fray when layed on hard edges, corners, and little detail areas. By hiding those spots with rondo, the fiberglass lays down very very easily. But rondo is NOT strong enough for prolonged wearing, some people have good luck with it and probably don't ever drop their armor or walk into doors or tables, but you're playing the odds if you don't add in some layers of fiberglass.
Good luck, especially with finding stuff, as I recall you saying you lived in Australia, so the products will be differently named! But any further questions we'll be glad to answer.
Don't feel bad. It is part of learning. Trust me, I've worked on constumes for more than 2 years now and every time I see someone's work I keep saying that I need to do better. There is always something missing on my work.
After seeing your work on the Iron Man, I agree you put way too much Bondo. If you pep the helmet correctly, Bondo should be applied on areas that you want to smooth out. Before you attempt to fix your helmet, I suggest that you redo it. Taking off the excess Bondo is a pain and more likely than not, you will not get the original shape of the Iron Man helmet.
I suggest that you look into making a foam helmet of Iron Man. I've seen some great work. Look for Stealth foam template. Here is the link to the RPF. Hope this inspires you.
http://www.therpf.com/f24/robo3687-iron-man-mark-4-6-pepakura-128147/
I don't know if they'll ship to Australia, it would be expensive and I'd check local auto stores first.
The resin sold here usually comes with MEKP, the british stuff usually comes with the paste.
Do not need eye protection for this stage. If you do dremel grinding at bondo stage you will need it though, so if you plan to do power sanding you might want to buy some when you get your respirator.
The resin sold here usually comes with MEKP, the british stuff usually comes with the paste.
Do not need eye protection for this stage. If you do dremel grinding at bondo stage you will need it though, so if you plan to do power sanding you might want to buy some when you get your respirator.
thewrongvine
New Member
Yeah, I've learned a lot from when I started this 3 weeks ago. If only I knew back then, ha.
I will definitely make a new one, but I just needed to get this done in time for the Avengers premiere. Which was amazing, I just finished watching it earlier this morning at 12:01. I sanded as much as I could, then painted it, and added some foam inside because I made it too small and was pressing it on my temples.
Man, that helmet you linked... so much simpler! The ones I found had like around 100 pieces each. And yeah, the Hero Tutorials is where I started, I based most of my work of his tutorials. For the body, I am going to use foam, but I asked Stealth about his Iron Man suit, and he said that he does foam for the body but keeps the helmet as the cardstock-resin-bondo method as it allows more detail than foam. I think.
But thanks a lot everyone. Once I get some more time, I will try again.
Hello everyone, I have a little rondo problem of my own. I can mix it just fine, but when I try to pour it into the model onle about 2/3rds of it actually pour out of the cup. And it runs really slow so it only covers a small section of the model when it should fill the whole thing. This is very frusterating and a huge waste, what am I doing wrong?
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