"Help!" for: Fiberglassing, Resin, & Bondo

[rugg3r 2010]

Thank you very much Blorin!! I just wasnt sure if bondo or rondo had like a weight limit and didnt want to find out the hard way lol.

 

[Tritan]

Alrighty. So, it's winter, and I'm in the middle of building an ODST helmet. I was wondering if there were alternatives to polyurethane resining the outside of the helmet because I don't have a heated garage. Would 5 minute epoxy work (gorilla brand) and hold up for a round of rondo? (I know rondo should be done with a heated room, I have my basement. I just want to minimize fumes.)

Edit: I do have a mask, but is there any way to prevent the fumes from going up the stairs as well?

 

[Katsu]

You have a few options, depending on where you live.

I'm in Cali, and in the day it doesn't get much below 40-50F, which is still fine weather for HOT resin mixing (Instead of 10 drops per ounce you do 12-15), it means less working time but it will cure in the cold. Also rondo does cure fast enough that doing it near a wall of your house might be enough to do that in even colder temperatures.

NEVER do resin inside a house. We have an industrial fume hood in the shop I work at and even then the smell can permeate. It's not worth the risk of leaking fumes.

If you are backed against a wall about it, you could always go the expensive route and buy some water based Resin. It's like twice the price but is non-toxic and can be done indoors "safely". Or EVA foam but that would be a whole new method.

The last suggestion is to build yourself a little hotbox. You get a high temperature resistant plastic tub that's bigger than what you're working with and a heat gun or hairdryer.. I've seen people take these and put the heating element on low inside the box. You have to be careful as if the heater is too close to the armor it can catch on fire potentially, so you do want to keep half an eye on it.

 

[Jason 078]

EpoxAmite® 100 Laminating Epoxy

It is just like the resin, but safe for indoor work. It is also great for using with fiberglass.

 

[tippmannrunner]

Would making a wire frame inside the helmet and armor help strengthen them before the resin process to prevent cracking and warping?

 

[Katsu]

You could try that, something like armature wire... But the big risk is that the armor is flimsy when it's just cardstock, and trying to form wire inside the helmet could cause you to bend/warp/puncture the cardstock. A single layer of resin reinforces it enough to handle some handling. I'd at least do that before trying to install wire, but it seems like it would be difficult to do without damaging the armor further. Worth a shot if you want though!

 

[tippmannrunner]

thanks i kinda thought to do one or two layers of resin before hand i just wanted to see if it is a good idea since you and other people were having problems with cracking during the hardening process.

 

[Vandoore]

Been away so long I should be a noob again, but I can't post new threads in here :'( so this seemed like the most appropriate place to put this question.
I am building a sliced cardboard dera (corpus weapon from warframe) and need so guidance as how to apply resin to the build once I've finished detailing and slight modifications.
Here is a photo for you convenience.

So my ideas are:
1) apply 3-4 light coats to the outside and seal the build, then apply bondo where needed, paint etc.
Though my concern is as the coats dry it will shrink/expand the cardboard and warp it.

2)cardboard is pretty strong so just soak the thing resin, getting as much inside as possible and wait for it to dry, apply bondo and paint after.
Same concern as above though would it just be reduced to a sodden mess?

Thoughts/ideas/input really not sure here.

 

[EVAkura]

So my ideas are:
1) apply 3-4 light coats to the outside and seal the build, then apply bondo where needed, paint etc.
Though my concern is as the coats dry it will shrink/expand the cardboard and warp it.

2)cardboard is pretty strong so just soak the thing resin, getting as much inside as possible and wait for it to dry, apply bondo and paint after.
Same concern as above though would it just be reduced to a sodden mess?

Thoughts/ideas/input really not sure here.

Personally, I would think the multi thin coats would be your best bet... But, a better idea would be to do a test piece first! I know it's a pain and seems like double work, but first-hand experience usually provides the best reference and reduces the learning curve greatly on something that you have obviously put so much dedication and love into.

Looking great so far btw!

 

[Gray]

Hey guys, quick question. After I finish my Pepakura Recon Helmet, would I be able to use clear coat spray to stiffen it rather than resining the outside of it? Or would that not work. I intend of resining the outside of the helmet afterwards, the clear coat is just to stiffen the paper so it won't deform when resined.

 

[Katsu]

The main reason to use Resin to coat the armor (other than stiffening) is because it soaks into the paper and then can create a resin-to-resin bond with the fiberglass/rondo you apply later. While a clear coat may mechanically stiffen it, it won't make as good of a chemical bond to the hardening material you use to the paper itself.

It may work to use the spray, but I am worried you may pick a brand that resists the resin bond. I found out that the glue I was using was blocking the resin from soaking into the paper, and when I went to sand, it would be like sanding a stack of paper and frayed paper would go everywhere. It isn't the end of the world, so the mechanical benefits to clear coating may outweigh the risks for you.

 

[recon313]

i'm been working on hd master chief shin for more than a month of my holiday and it really fed me up on small2 details and spot putty doesnt really help up (I just discover that it only help in very small2 pinhole and oversanding part and it really low om strenght ) and im kinda think of doing alternate of bondo by using clay for smoothing those small2 dertail. Does this a good idea? i mean has anyone tried this ?

 

[EVAkura]

i'm been working on hd master chief shin for more than a month of my holiday and it really fed me up on small2 details and spot putty doesnt really help up (I just discover that it only help in very small2 pinhole and oversanding part and it really low om strenght ) and im kinda think of doing alternate of bondo by using clay for smoothing those small2 dertail. Does this a good idea? i mean has anyone tried this ?

Just like Katsu stated with the previous question, you need the chemical bond. Bondo and spot putty does just that. The downside to spot putty, like you stated, is that it has to be used to correct very (and I think the better word would be EXTREMELY) small imperfections. I have worked with bondo/resin/spot putty for many years and like myself when I started, too many people try to use too much or complete too much at one time. I understand your frustration that you are having, but it is a learning process with a decently steep curve. If you want perfection, you must dedicate yourself to that goal all the way.

So, to answer your question about clay: The problem with clay is it needs to dry. Two things happen. Shrinkage and a brittle composition. It will be no better than the spot putty unfortunately. You could try an epoxy putty, but that opens a whole new can of worms that I believe you would not be satisfied taking on.

I hope this helps you. In the end, the quality of your project is ultimately up to you. The point where you are satisfied and/or happy with your work is your choice. Everyone's limits are their own. Remember, if it was easy to create flawless armor, everyone would do it. How would you gain pride in your craftsmanship then?

 

[recon313]

Just like Katsu stated with the previous question, you need the chemical bond. Bondo and spot putty does just that. The downside to spot putty, like you stated, is that it has to be used to correct very (and I think the better word would be EXTREMELY) small imperfections. I have worked with bondo/resin/spot putty for many years and like myself when I started, too many people try to use too much or complete too much at one time. I understand your frustration that you are having, but it is a learning process with a decently steep curve. If you want perfection, you must dedicate yourself to that goal all the way.

So, to answer your question about clay: The problem with clay is it needs to dry. Two things happen. Shrinkage and a brittle composition. It will be no better than the spot putty unfortunately. You could try an epoxy putty, but that opens a whole new can of worms that I believe you would not be satisfied taking on.

I hope this helps you. In the end, the quality of your project is ultimately up to you. The point where you are satisfied and/or happy with your work is your choice. Everyone's limits are their own. Remember, if it was easy to create flawless armor, everyone would do it. How would you gain pride in your craftsmanship then?

well my plan is not to cover the whole armor with clay just small2 detail as my scraper won't reach it as it too small and only 5% of part of the the shin that i will cover with clay. I think i go epoxy putty then after applying the putty i go like this sand=>resin=>sand=>spot putty=>sand=>paint(primer first then the real paint coating) it.I know that it kinda hard to make an armor and take a lot of time of building but i think finding an alternate also part of craftmanship if there is an easier and cheaper way why not . btw thx for your advice of using epoxy putty

 

[Ghost Bear 027]

I'm not sure I'm tracking exactly what is going on with the spot putty, but I highly recommend using Rondo with a paintbrush ("glaze" if you're into donuts like me to give a smooth finish to pieces. I used that on my helmet and found it did an excellent job of filling in the pin holes and covering up little things besides just adding a nice smooth finish. Scrape it with a straight edge razor where you need a perfectly flat face, or sand it down gently, and I think you'll be surprised and pleased with the results. It's tougher than spot putty (from what I've seen) and I think less of a headache. Good luck!

 

[JayOneSeven]

How does masking tape hold up against resin? I heard that some tapes will dissolve, or become unstuck because of the reaction between the resin and the glue, and was curious if masking tape will do the same.
A piece I'm working on, for some reason, builds as a large collection of smaller pieces, with no way to put them together other than temporarily with masking tape, and I don't want to finish the whole thing only to have it collapse on itself when I hit it with a coat of resin.
So has anyone tried this yet? Or should I go out and test it on a piece?

 

[morkar78]

Have you tried building small "bridges" of paper that connect the small parts from the inside and resin them?

I got a question myself: is there some reason why apply the Rondo over fiberglass clothes is dangerous/wrong/useless? (I was thinking to use this strategy for my helmet)

Thanks!

 

[JayOneSeven]

Have you tried building small "bridges" of paper that connect the small parts from the inside and resin them?

I've done that lots on little pieces where the tbs don't give enough strength, I call them patches. It'd be a real pain though to do that for the whole piece, it's a whole abdomen 360degree wrap around.

As for your question, I Rondod the inside of my Skyrim helm after fiberglass cloth, it turned out great and have a lot of strength. Rondo sure does add a lot of weight though so I'm not sure I'd do it again.

 

[EVAkura]

I got a question myself: is there some reason why apply the Rondo over fiberglass clothes is dangerous/wrong/useless? (I was thinking to use this strategy for my helmet)

Thanks!

The only reason I can think of why you would not want to rondo over the fiberglass cloth is because that is a bit of a backwards process. The reason why you rondo first is for two reasons. 1. It fills the gaps that you will not be able to get the glass to sit right in, thus making air pockets that may affect structural integrity and is really difficult to correct, and 2. By filling said gaps, when you go to equal out the symmetry of the helmet, you may find that you have to sand through the cardstock from your original pep design. If there is rondo there, it is much easier to sand and will have almost zero possibilities of air pockets (see reason 1).

Yes, rondo does add weight. If you stick with Cereal Kill3r's method of a 50/50 mix on the first coat, that one will be very thin. Then if you do your next mix at 75% bondo, 25% resin, you will have a thicker mixture that you can use to just fill any low spots that would be difficult for the fiberglass to lay flat on. Don't do the whole helmet with that mix, and don't mix too much rondo because you will be tempted to use it all... which would just be adding more useless weight. Then you can go to your fiberglass layer. Hope this helps!

 

[EVAkura]

I've done that lots on little pieces where the tbs don't give enough strength, I call them patches. It'd be a real pain though to do that for the whole piece, it's a whole abdomen 360degree wrap around.

I guess if you don't want to use the patch method, then the only other option would be to directly glue the adjacent faces. That will leave you with a sharp "V" where the pieces connect, and I am not sure everything will line up correctly if you do it this way... but it seems like your only other option without going the patch route.